Sounds to me like we can either start applying some common sense to our personal management of rest and fatigue or wind up with more "solutions" thru regulation. The same regulating that allows 24 hour duty days with double crews on ultra long-haul.

I still don't think this was a fatigue driven event, as much as it was lack of training and inexperience. Either way the Media/Feds/Capitol Hill have gotten a hold of it, and the circus has begun.

There will be something coming out of this.

 

There is no way they can come up for a regulation for this. Its nearly impossible. Where do you draw the line? A two hour drive? What happens if it is snowing and my 1 hour drive turns into a 3 hour drive? I contend a 1 hour drive to get to work is much more taxiing than a 2 hour jumpseat. They would have to come up with a book thicker than an Encyclopaedia describing the rules. And if they did come up with some scheme and enforced it there would be total chaos, 50% of the work force would have commuting problems.

 

[quote=ChickenFlight;608685]Airlines benefit from commuters just as much as pilots do. Commuters (such as I) have more motivation to make sure overnight legs do not cancel, to keep on schedule and to get weight restrictions lifted. (Though the last example is more an issue for the regional forum, it makes sense that we might be able to get a few revenue pax on in addition to our fellow commuters. )

Except that pilots, in general, do not have operational control and thus cannot cancel legs. I have seen a few write up certain items in such a colorful language that it could not be MEL'd, and as a result had to either shift to another aircraft (causing a delay), or the cancellation of the leg (from dispatch). However, it was a "slippery slope" because the crew, or parts of, could be reassigned. Sometimes it worked, other times it didnt. Especially when crew scheduling knows it is the last turn of a multi-day pattern.

I have to imagine that some rules might start to develop with the respect to commuting. I was one for almost eight years with a regional carrier. But there is no way in frickin' heck that I would ever move to the base I was at!

 

When I started this thread, I should have added that I have always subscribed to the "Big Boy" Theory which says we are all Big Boys (and Girls) and ought to be able to police ourselves. I've managed to successfully commute for 12 years and try to practice safe commuting, coming down the night before when necessary, keeping a crash pad, etc. I think you should punish the few who don't practice safe commuting, not regulate the many who do.

However, we all know that the FAA is famous for their tombstone mentality in that they move at a glacial pace until prompted by passenger deaths. Add in a good old public uproar, and some pressure from the New York Senate delegation and there's no telling what they will do. Unfortunately, the public will latch on to the most sensationalistic aspects that may or may not have anything to do with this accident. For right or wrong, the ones that have sparked the most media/public furor have been sterile cockpit 'chattiness' and crewmembers who commute on redeyes and sleep in crewrooms.

You can bet that the next Fed on your jumpseat will take a keen interest in Sterile cockpit procedures.....and if I'm correct, Colgan already broached the idea of pulling random CVRs to monitor for the same thing (something that should cause the full wrath of ALPA). I'm just hoping they don't come up with some equally ridiculous 'fix' for commuting.

 

Very naive on your part Sir. There are an endless number of "ways" they can come up with. You may not like their solution but I ask you, do they care?

 

And to that end, I give you one of the FAA's answers to pilot fatigue...."Protected Rest".

There you had one management pilot's attempt to land an airplane in an extremely violent weather situation, and the FAA's focus was on how fatigued they were.

 

Everyone that wants to comment on this accident should read the CVR that is available for public viewing. From cruise flight until intercepting the localizer there was so much mindless chatter. Very little of which was concerned with the weather conditions that they were in. A direct violation of the sterile cockpit rule below 10,000 feet.

Reading that transcript one does not get the feeling that this was a fatigued crew. This will be an interesting investigation and will cover all aspects of Colgan's operation from training, checking and adequate crew rest for their flight crews

 

Is it too damn difficult for the FAA to cut back on the duty times and increase the rest requirements... Ooops I forgot the airlines would have a **it fit. That would make scheduling a nightmare.

 

I really hope things change sad that people had to die but its about time for management to kick a nice carpet dance. I just went to colgan website and they are doing their absolute best to stay out in front of this rock slide but the boulders are just comming to hard and fast. The fact of the matter is for the indstry, cal, and colgan the chickens are comming home to rootse.

 

Lets see, wake up at 4am, 2am on my body clock. Not uncommon at the "regionals" these days whose flying consists of flying in the region of the entire United States. Anyway, wake up at 4 am, fly 2 hours, sit for four hours after flying that 2, then fly 3 hours, sit 2 hours, then fly 1 hour to an 8 1/2 hour sit (overnight) at a hotel, repeat.

I'm not talking about day 1 of a trip with a commute in on that day, I'm talking about days 2 and 3 of many "regional" type 4 day trips.