The glory days are over
 

The glory days are over
BY BARRY SCHIFF (From AOPA Pilot, June 2006.)

Barry Schiff retired from TWA in 1998 after a 34-year career with the airline.

I have been agonizing over the topic of this column for a few years, not knowing if I should publicly air my personal thoughts. Not to do so, I finally concluded, would be intellectually dishonest. So at the risk of attracting flak, here goes.

I was hired as a pilot by Trans World Airlines in 1964. This was during the glamour years that began after World War II. Airline salaries were rising, working conditions improved with every contract renewal, and airline pilots earned approval and respect from every quarter. On international flights, airline pilots were treated like royalty.

No one working for Pan American World Airways or TWA during this period could possibly have anticipated the demise of their airlines. These were cultural icons of the twentieth century. At one time, TWA's logo was the second most recognizable in the world (Coca-Cola's was the first).

The death knell for this era sounded on October 24, 1978, when President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act. The merits and demerits of deregulation aside, the long-term result for pilots was etched in stone. There would be an erosion of wages, working conditions, pensions, and job security.

Things got worse after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. Because of the need for additional security, airline pilots are locked in their cockpits behind bulletproof doors and suffer the indignity of coordinating trips to the lavatory with flight attendants.

The glory years are gone.

I could not have been prouder when my son Brian was hired by TWA in 1989. Although conditions had declined since the airlines were deregulated, being an airline pilot was still a great job. He upgraded to captain on the Boeing 727 11 years later. Although thrilled to be in the left seat of a jetliner for a major carrier, he worked harder and earned a smaller salary than I did many years previously.

TWA was assimilated by American Airlines in 2001. During the next two years Brian went from left seat to right seat to the street. He had been furloughed and eventually found a job flying Learjets for a Part 135 operator. He now flies as captain of a Canadair Regional Jet for a commuter carrier.

Like thousands of others who have been furloughed from the majors, he has no idea when he will be recalled. Considering that American is reducing its need for pilots by contractual increases in pilot productivity and outsourcing many of its shorter, thinner routes to commuter carriers, it could be many years before Brian again sees an American Airlines' flight deck. Another of my sons, Paul, began to satisfy his desire to become an airline pilot in 2000 when he was hired by Trans States Airline, a company that operated TWExpress, US Airways Express, and AmericanConnection. Paul bounced between all three and discovered after 9/11 that he was not making headway in accruing seniority.

After four domicile changes, he opted to leave Trans States and obtain a more promising position with United Express. He worked there for three years, during which he had as many changes in domicile, and discovered that the most he had earned after six years as a commuter pilot was less than $30,000 per year. He again foresaw little potential for a career like I had and with great mental anguish opted to change professions.

Paul recently started a pet-supply company, gets to spend every night in his own bed, and has an opportunity to develop a social life. As an airline pilot gone from home 21 days a month, he had little opportunity to meet someone with whom he might like to share a future. When he did meet someone, he had neither the time nor the money for dating.

Paul says, "It is relatively easy to get a job with a commuter carrier, but not because these carriers are losing pilots to the majors; they are not. The attrition rate at the regional level is high because so many pilots reach their limits of endurance and quit. They find it too difficult to live on starvation wages [especially those with families]. There usually was nothing left in my wallet after shelling out for commuting and crash-pad expenses."

Although these are anecdotal experiences, my frank and personal discussions with numerous other airline pilots corroborate my feelings about the state of the airline industry. I can no longer encourage aspiring airline pilots without first ensuring that they understand the treacherous and daunting journeys typically required to reach for such lofty goals.

Do not misunderstand. Coping with the challenges of weather, communing with nature in a way that only pilots can appreciate, and maneuvering a sophisticated aircraft from one place on Earth to another remains a stimulating and gratifying endeavor (although I think it was more fun with less automation). It is the price one must pay to get there that is so discouraging.

I frequently am asked for advice about becoming an airline pilot. The best advice I can offer those determined to endure the rigorous hardships often required is to simultaneously develop a sideline vocation that can be used in case of emergency. A pilot should never get into a position that is totally dependent on income from an airline.

Does the end justify the means? Does becoming a captain for a major airline justify all that must be endured to get there? Perhaps, but surviving long enough to get there is the problem.

Nuts ??
 

And some here think my ideas are nutty and that I am just a bitter failure. Now AOPA is writing articles similar to my postings. Could flying magazine be next? Perhaps I should write a few articles?

SkyHigh

AOPA is not writing the articles. It is merely the opinion of one of their respected contributing authors.

Still
 

However AOPA allowed it to be published. They wouldn't of done it had they thought it was a fringe topic.

SkyHigh

I don't think that you're nuts. I just think that you can be very demeaning to those of us that actually enjoy this profession. It certainly isn't without it's downs, but I do think that you are bitter enough to not remember it's up moments as well.

It is still possible to make a comfortable living, with high quality of life in aviation. It might not be as easily attained as those so called "glory days" but it's certainly possible.

~J

Sure
 

Lots of things in life are "possible" however when your future is on the line most would prefer terms like probable. It is also my position that comfortable isn't good enough after so much sacrifice. It is difficult to recall many good times. Poverty, disappointment and misery have a way of blinding one to the smell of roses if they ever even existed.

SkyHigh

True… but the sun started to set on the glory days long before 9/11. 9/11 just accelerated the process.

I have had the privilege of having a long career in this wacky world of aviation. But, I have always followed the same advice that I have given to pilots desirous of a career in aviation… have a career to fall back on if the flying gig doesn’t pan out, your they just get plain fed up with flying for a living. For kids in college, wanting to be a pilot, take up a major in a field other than aviation… diversify oneself.

Even with the turmoil today… the worst day in the cockpit still beats the best day behind a desk.

Neverland
 

Kid visiting cockpit: "Wow! I want to be a pilot when I grow up!"

Old Captain: "Well, Son, you can't do both." :cool:

I agree. It's a long road and has a lot to do with who you know, luck and timing but it was worth it for me. I can't imagine having to go to work M-F 9-5 for the next 30+ years. I think I would want to shoot myself in the head.

I also agree you need to have a back up.

The only good thing about the state of our industry is that current working conditions will discourage young folks from entering the profession. A shortage of pilots is the only thing that will raise pay and benefits.

The question of whether it is too easy to become a pilot is still something that has to be addressed but the barriers to entry are still pretty high (cost).

I just got off the phone with a former Air Force pilot. This guy is about 80 years old. At one time he was going to fly for NWA back in the 50's. He told me about how when NW only had DC-3 and DC-4 and how the pilots would sometimes only fly for half a year. The other half the guys would be out of work and how they complained about pay and other issues that are still affecting the industry today.

So keeping things in perspective, according to the gentleman I just got off the phone with, pilots have had the issue of pay since the beginning. Glory days...sounds like there never were any. JMO.

atp

I agree.. I know quite a few who started out and gave up when they found out about pay and QOL. Always thought to myself that I hope it will means a pilot shortage and better pay for me.

New Stategy !!
 

What if we all work to drive the pay and benefits even further into the ground until the weak are driven off and the new are discouraged? Then once the flood of pilots has subsided we can demand higher pay. SO what do you think?

Skyhigh

SkyHigh, did you ever fly the 707, 727, md80?

atpwannabe, I started with Delta in October, 1966. I was an 8 year veteran of the USMC with 1350 hours of single engine fighter time (that won`t get you a job with a commuter now). I started as a flight engineer on DC6&7`s. I had a wonderful career, flew the L100, DC 9`s DC 8`s, L1011, MD 80`s 757, and finally the 767. I flew both domestically and internationally. I made a lot of friends, a lot on money, got a wopper of a retirement check. I`m not sure what exactly the "Glory Days" are, but if they existed, I had them, and they will be back. The pendulum swings both ways. There is an old saying in the Marine Corps.." a bitching Marine is a happy Marine"...must be a few real happy guys on this forum....

No Sir
 

Sorry my big jet experience is in the 757-200 and the government bought me a 737-400 type.

SkyHigh

Well, who knows maybe it will come down to that:rolleyes: Its definitly unfortunate and only time will tell.

Why are you still here?

No, AOPA/Barry Schiff is NOT writing articles similar to your postings. To do so, they would have had to include some pilot and some ALPA bashing; they did not.

Believe you me, you're not the only pilot who realizes that the career isn't exactly glorious at the present, but you are one of a very small number who thinks that it is your fellow pilots and their union at fault.

SkyBolt

Gloom, despair, and misery on me. Deep dark depression, excessive misery, etc. I do miss Hee-Haw. RIP Buck Owens.

Man, I'm starting to feel sorry for you. It must suck to be you, and to carry the bitterness that you carry. Step away from the keyboard and go hug your kids.

skybolt

Maybe I missed it, I'm fairly new to this site. Is skybolt somebody important, or does he/she simply think that only their point of view holds water...seriously? Who are you?

[QUOTE= (mike734)The question of whether it is too easy to become a pilot is still something that has to be addressed but the barriers to entry are still pretty high (cost).[/QUOTE]

I would say that it's hard becoming a pilot, especially now! Look at all the obstacles that stand in one's way? After getting a commercial ticket, you have to teach for another 2-3 yrs making below 1st year communter pay. Or donate the other kidney for pilot interships. After that get hired with a commuter and still not breaking the 20k a year mark until the 2nd year of senority. You might be lucky to break 30k a year in 3-4 years. During all this you have to make payments on any loans you accrued over the years. If anything I wouldn't call this easy.

Easy?
 

Many regionals are hiring pilots with less than 500 hours now. Just a decade ago it was common to have more than 3000 as a regional new hire. The cost of training can be financed. Back in the 90's the bank would laugh at you if you asked for a loan to fly. To me it seems shockingly easy to jump into flying now. One would think it to be difficult but yet they come.

SkyHigh

Your world
 

The world you live in must be something to see. Too bad it only exists in your head. Seems that these days I have to get in line in order to ALPA bash. Try reading other peoples posts once in a while. I know that you are my number one fan but branch out a little.

SkyHigh

Plentiful Pilots
 

I just finished reading on another thread where some in debt pilots were discussing ways to dismiss their pilot loans. One poster mentioned that she was 100K in debt and has little chance of paying it off. Becoming a pilot today isn't just easy its too easy.

SkyHIgh

Dude, you NEED to get a life. Ok, so being a pilot isn't so glamorous as it used to be..ok, its downright BAD. You sound like a whiney 5 year old with your "BOO HOO I was a pilot and now I'm not so don't even think about it." Just go away and cry to your book club.

Interesting article by Schiff. He's so highly respected in our profession that his words will force the head-in-the-sand types to finally acknowledge that compensation levels are a faint shadow of what they once were, and are continuing to decline.

The "glory days" are gone forever, I'm afraid.

Schiff is dead wrong on one count, however. It's not that the hardships are more daunting than ever on the way to that fat paycheck and job security. It's that the "fat" paycheck at the top levels is a lot less fat than it used to be, and it's getting slimmer all the time. That's really the reality that's closing in all around us. As I've said numerous times, the industry is rapidly heading toward a compensation level where senior mainline captains will make around 100-120K... or about the same as senior big-city policemen. We are well on our way toward becoming a thoroughly blue-collar profession, like computer systems engineers or factory supervisors. The culprit: the cheap fare, which shows no signs of going away, despite what recent reports about high load factors would infer.

I generally like Barry's articles and I hear what he is saying. There has certainly been a decline in the pay and working conditons of major airline pilots over the years. That doesn't mean there aren't still good jobs out there because I think they still exist. It is all a question of what you want. Fedex and UPS are certainly good jobs, as is SWA.

When I got into flying I didn't really care what the top level pay was going to be. All I want is to live a middle class life and have a decent lifestyle. If you think you'll get rich by being an employee then you need to have a wake-up call.

I'm having a good time at my present job and make decent money. I'm home 25 nights. I get treated quite well at work and on the road.

The good jobs and positions are out there. They aren't easy to find, but if you persist then you'll get there one day.

TP

I concur. I really couldn't give a hoot if I don't become Senior CP of XYZ Air Line or of ABC Freighthaulers. I, too, am looking for a decent lifestyle and a middle class life just as TP has put it. In addition, having a two income household is something that I have been use to ever since I can remember and for me, I believe it sets a good example for children to emulate. JMO.

Btw, both my parents are retired school teachers and they did one helluva job working full-time, active in the community & church, active in their respective fraternity/sorority and raising five children and providing a safe and stable family environment.

atp

Good jobs
 

The exception here is that you will be gone most of the time and when you are home they will be at school.

There are a few good jobs left however the way things are going they will be gone in ten years as well. To me it seems that even the better flying jobs have been frozen in pay and the rest of the world is overtaking. A decade from now I feel that only the best companies will pay their captains a middle class wage and everyone else will wallow in poverty.



SkyHigh

If I recall Typhoonpilot works and lives overseas. If that is so then 25 nights at home each month doesn't really count. I don't think that most people would accept a foreign country as home. Working overseas has been an option but I never could do it. A large part of life satisfaction is living where
you want.

SKyHigh

Dude??
 

Then who would be here to make fun of you?

SKyHigh

You are most likely just a skyHigh alter ego, but I'll go ahead and answer. I'm just a line pilot. My opinion counts the same as does yours. So post away, then I post away, etc. Here's the way it works, I don't post to argue with you, or skyHIgh, I post to counter your tone; I'm speaking to others who may read this forum so that I can help uphold a little respect for my job and my fellow pilots. SkyHigh has a long history of "speaking the truth", but he also has a long history of bashing pilots. I will continue to respond when skyHigh attempts to demean me and mine.

I ask skyHigh "why are you still here" because his presence is a puzzle. Why does someone who left the business continue to come back and bash those who remain. It's a free country, he had the freedom to leave, I have the freedom to stay. It seems to me that skyHigh can't stand the fact that he is out but some of us with greater intestinal fortitude than he, managed to remain.

I myself may leave the industry. However, if I do, I'll never return to an aviation industry forum and bash the workers. Greedy Don Carty/ lorenzo/Borman/etc type managers will be the object of my continuing scorn.

Skybolt

I'll give you this one. ALPA bashing is a popular sport these days. I'll be more careful in the future to differentiate between ALPA bashing and your pilot bashing. It's the pilot bashing that really bugs me anyway.

Skybolt

Initially, that may be the case :( . However, my hope is to live and raise my children where I'm based :) . I know that may sound presumptuous, but I'll cross that bridge when and if it comes.

WHy
 

Thanks Bolt !!! I need guys like you to cross swords with.

To answer your question as to why I am here. As with everyone here I love aviation it was my continuing dream for over 20 years of my life. Since 14 I have been passionately pursuing my magnificent obsession by giving my 100% everyday. Love is blind but over a few decades of disappointments and in a desperate attempt to salvage my dying career I began to take the blinders off in order to see what the problem was. The results are what I post here. People need to know the truth about our addiction. Pilots and unions I believe are a part of the problem. I also feel that the job has become all to easy to get into and that it is becoming very easy to do.

In the end aviation failed me. As with beaten wife syndrome a few are able to wake up and get out. It is the choice that I had to make. I don't have to cling to the positive anymore. My perspective is unaltered and I can afford to have a negative view at times.

You guys are all that I have left after nearly 20 years of efforts and sacrifice. I enjoy sharing ideas and ducking your arrows. You are a very worthy foe and I look forward to your posts.

SKyHigh

Parents
 

It is really presumptuous. If you really admired your parents then perhaps you should strive to emulate them. As a pilot even in the best of circumstances you would miss most birthdays and holidays and could never participate in most activities.

SKyHigh

All I could do was smile & start laughing R-E-A-L hard.:p

atp

Maybe at the end of this tunnel we will see the return of real unionism in this industry. Hopefully we will get rid of the soft union leaders (worthless) and return to the days of the Hoffa type mentality and either force companies to deal with us as professionals or risk getting shut down. Remember, it's a lot easier for a guy making 30K a year to go on strike than it is for a guy making 200K.

Rich pilots are divided pilots.

Fair enough, lay into the sham union but, no pilot bashing. Right? Unlike some of our more venal, yet anomymous, cohorts on the board...


Maybe this: from a purported 757 Driver...Your words...Our kind...your kind...pros? Nah, I'll pass. Your response?

Not true. It seems hard times have found their way to the airline industry as it has in the automotive, clothing manufacturing, and high tech industries.

It’s not easy for any one, regardless the level of income, or industry which one is gainfully employed in, to go on strike. It’s a disruption of one’s life, life style, family and livelihood.

Today typically, individuals try to spend and save within their means. It’s common for a husband and or wife to maintain a part time job in addition to their full time job which results in two to three incomes per household. Then there are those who spend beyond their means and go into debt. Pilots as other professionals are not immune to this peril. Fixed expenses, such as mortgages, car leases, educations didn’t decline in the same proportion as salaries did. This is a catastrophic event in anyone’s family, again regardless of their professions.

Professions are never embarked upon with the prospect of declines of compensation, termination of benefits, and interference with their QOL. It’s a shame that pilots have been caught up in this whirlpool.

There is no union out there that’s going to fix that for many years to come.

As individuals we are in command of our own glory days… not the airlines, nor any other employer.

I have recommended, to up and coming aviators, even during the so called glory days to have a profession to fall back on in such cases as these.