Some CAL pilots taking from The Man
05-23-2009 | 08:28 PM
#11
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They just got divorces...riiiiight....
Glad you enjoy those retired, oops, I mean divorced pilots who left less for you sitting in your seat! Did you send gifts for their remarriage ceremony?
I hope the facts come out. If they're thieves, they ought to be treated as such.
05-24-2009 | 01:29 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 89
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From: Boeing
This is almost as dishonest as airlines promising pilots a pension and then killing it under the guise of saving the corporation....ohh, wait....
Own it gents, we spend our days flying jets for moraly empty companies. Your valor is not valued, treat it as such.
Enjoy the flying but understand the business.
Own it gents, we spend our days flying jets for moraly empty companies. Your valor is not valued, treat it as such.
Enjoy the flying but understand the business.
05-24-2009 | 05:19 AM
#13
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: B737 Captain
I guess you don't understand how underfunded pensions work. We got to see it up close and personal at Delta. Every pilot "made whole" getting "their" money meant less money for all the others who had earned a pension when the plan terminated.
They just got divorces...riiiiight....
Glad you enjoy those retired, oops, I mean divorced pilots who left less for you sitting in your seat! Did you send gifts for their remarriage ceremony?
I hope the facts come out. If they're thieves, they ought to be treated as such.
They just got divorces...riiiiight....
Glad you enjoy those retired, oops, I mean divorced pilots who left less for you sitting in your seat! Did you send gifts for their remarriage ceremony?
I hope the facts come out. If they're thieves, they ought to be treated as such.
You do understand that Delta was playing with the bankruptcy rules whereas CAL isn't. Only a court can terminate our plan. We may be forced into annuities because of this but thats it. And by the way; more than 9 pilots pulled this stunt. I guess the others covered their tracks better and made it harder to prove.
05-24-2009 | 05:32 AM
#14
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Joined: Nov 2005
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I guess you don't understand how underfunded pensions work. We got to see it up close and personal at Delta. Every pilot "made whole" getting "their" money meant less money for all the others who had earned a pension when the plan terminated.
They just got divorces...riiiiight....
Glad you enjoy those retired, oops, I mean divorced pilots who left less for you sitting in your seat! Did you send gifts for their remarriage ceremony?
I hope the facts come out. If they're thieves, they ought to be treated as such.
They just got divorces...riiiiight....
Glad you enjoy those retired, oops, I mean divorced pilots who left less for you sitting in your seat! Did you send gifts for their remarriage ceremony?
I hope the facts come out. If they're thieves, they ought to be treated as such.
If a divorce allows them to get their money then so be it. It's BS what happened to you guys at Delta but to call these pilots thieves is ridiculous.
If I run into one of these pilots I'd buy them a drink and say congrats.
05-24-2009 | 05:52 AM
#15
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,232
Likes: 62
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Hope these guys get a smart ERISA Attorney to defend them.
Last time I checked, it's not illegal to divorce and still maintain one's job/seniority.
Last time I checked, it is a requirement to satisfy the requirements under the Qualified Domestic Relations Order that trustees of a retirement plan comply with all aspects there under.
If the spouses who received distributions without rolling over the proceeds into a successor qualified retirement plan, then an excise tax is due.
Oh by the way... is it illegal to remarry a spouse you previously divorced?
So what law was broken?
Last time I checked, it's not illegal to divorce and still maintain one's job/seniority.
Last time I checked, it is a requirement to satisfy the requirements under the Qualified Domestic Relations Order that trustees of a retirement plan comply with all aspects there under.
If the spouses who received distributions without rolling over the proceeds into a successor qualified retirement plan, then an excise tax is due.
Oh by the way... is it illegal to remarry a spouse you previously divorced?
So what law was broken?
05-24-2009 | 07:44 AM
#16
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They'll need one. They might even "get away" with it using proper legal counsel.
Absolutely correct. But it is fraud upon the court if the divorce wasn't "real" and distributions from qualified plans are made. Insurance coverage is another area your employer might have a lot of interest.
There's the rub. It's not illegal to remarry, but the divorce has to be real.
Don't know yet. If what the company alleges is true, there's fraud, both against the plan and the employing company. That's a big deal. If not, then this is much ado about nothing. The empolyer has a high burden of proof on this one, but it sure looks like they have a great case.
Don't know yet. If what the company alleges is true, there's fraud, both against the plan and the employing company. That's a big deal. If not, then this is much ado about nothing. The empolyer has a high burden of proof on this one, but it sure looks like they have a great case.
05-24-2009 | 07:59 PM
#18
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On the other side of the coin was it fraud when airlines told it's employees they have a pension and then have it taken from them in bankruptcy?
05-25-2009 | 06:24 AM
#19
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One of the primary points of the gay marriage debate is the ability to legally obtain tax and benefit treatment that straight people enjoy. Ok, fine. But, if there is a way to enjoy financial benefits single and you then fall under the tax code and benefits regimine as "single", what is the crime? Marriage has been marginalized to the point of a simple contract now as opposed to something greater, at least in the eyes of the court. We also have a president in our past that made it ok to be "technically accurate, but misleading" and there were no punishments. I am not turning this into a political thread at all, but I think it would be mighty hard to prove a sham divorce, particularly if they are filing individual tax returns, etc. Who is to say what constitutes "divorce"?
05-25-2009 | 06:37 AM
#20
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One of the primary points of the gay marriage debate is the ability to legally obtain tax and benefit treatment that straight people enjoy. Ok, fine. But, if there is a way to enjoy financial benefits single and you then fall under the tax code and benefits regimine as "single", what is the crime? Marriage has been marginalized to the point of a simple contract now as opposed to something greater, at least in the eyes of the court. We also have a president in our past that made it ok to be "technically accurate, but misleading" and there were no punishments. I am not turning this into a political thread at all, but I think it would be mighty hard to prove a sham divorce, particularly if they are filing individual tax returns, etc. Who is to say what constitutes "divorce"?
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