I agree. 1,200 hours just to haul checks is too much.

 

I am glad we are having great conversation about the training levels and requirements, a lot of good ideas are being bounced around.

There were a couple of things I saw that I have to disagree with though.

Currently, there is no shortage of pilots. 18 months ago there was absolutely a shortage of applicants. And although I agree with the argument that many are not willing to work for $20k a year it unfortunately is a means to an end for many and certainly goes a lot further toward experience then working 3 jobs while flight instructing trying to make $20k a year. So while their are pilots available, airlines are not going to simply revamp negotiated contracts to attract more applicants.

I also read something about the Colgan pilot stating this was her first experience in icing. I believe that was the USA Today version of the story. I believe what she had said was that “she had seen more icing on IOE then she ever say flying in Phoenix“. Which of course makes sense. But where does one see icing unless in an aircraft certified to fly into icing conditions. Again, where do we get the experience?

135 jobs are going away and it is quickly becoming a rich mans game to even become a pilot. An ATP is a great idea because at the very least it thins the heard of applicants but if that stance is taken there will be a lot of very good pilots eliminated from the pool and a lot of very poor ATP qualified applicants getting hired because they have seats to fill.

Some of you had mentioned training and IMHO I think that is huge. At my regional we take things to the shaker and do unusual attitudes but I will fly along at FL370 with 15 year captains asking me questions about high altitude aero dynamics because they don't know the answers. Frankly neither do I. These should be the things taught and stressed in initial. Not breezed over to get through the course on schedule. I also don’t think its fair to spend the entire training session fearing for your lively hood in the crunch to learn/pass/fail environment.

I was telling my wife we carry defibulators on the plane but our flight attendants are not given first aid training. Most of them couldn't handle it, others will just freeze if something happens and there are others that will handle every situation like a true professional.

Bottom line the training falls short because its expensive. The American public and most certainly the media have demanded cut rate cost on air travel. And only when a disaster happens do they demand higher standards of safety. That mentality needs to change. Good luck with that one, if you‘ve got the answer NASA needs to speak to you about your thoughts on destroying this asteroid coming our way..

I say, charge what needs charged, pay what needs to be paid and by all means and train what needs trained. The traffic will fall off, the strong will survive and the weak will move on. But, until the money is there and the public is no longer willing to take a calculated risk for $79 dollar flights nothing will change.

 

The quote above is pretty close, but it was more "IMC on IOE," not icing. You can get plenty of IMC experience, and you should, before becoming an airline pilot!

 

As everyone begins to hire straight into a regional I winder if in the future piston twin pilots will be worth more than regional captains.

Skyhigh

 

I still believe that "magical" 1500 hours counts for something. You miss my point. Yes we can all tell specific stories of this "750 hour pilot" that I know who is lots better than this other "1500 hour pilot" I know. What I am talking about is in the BIG picture, if you are selecting from a pool of pilots who has 1500 hours and an ATP or better as opposed to a pool that has 300 hours or better, the OVERALL level of quality and quality of experience is higher. This to me = safer. It raises the level of the quality of the base (on the average-yes we can all find specific examples where this is not true) on which that 121 experience will be built.

Yes, as you mentioned flying the new 121 FO's with experienced Captains for a time period is a great idea as well.

 

Agreed. My only contention with requiring an ATP is that we would potentially be bypassing candidates that are as if not more qualified just because they haven't reached that 1,500 hour mark.

 

Sailing is right.

They pay Captains more than FO's. I think that is a fair situation for both parties. Experience is a very much worth what you pay for it. Also, "experience" comes at unexpected times and usually when you don't anticipate it. You can learn more on a four day in some areas than you can in a decade of flying early morning flights in the Caribbean.

ALPA is not going to say much about inexperience and low pay at regionals because ALPA literally wrote the contracts that facilitate this arrangement. "One Level of Safety" fell by the wayside when they endorsed outsourcing.

 

You are going to have a certain amount of that no matter what you do. What I am saying is just the opposite: You will decrease the number of those hired into 121 that are not quite "ripe" yet, putting less stress on the system safety-wise. Then there are the other benefits mentioned earlier about the possibility of pay, QOL, etc. being raised with the qualifications required.

 

I tend to go with you on this one. The problem will be that if this is somehow law then any pilot meeting the "mins" will get hired because they will need to fill the seats and there will not be enough applicants to choose from. There will not be a selection process when things get "good" again, it would simply be a where do you want to work and if you meet the atp requirements you are going to be able to pick your airline.

This would possibly kick the airlines in the right direction because they would need to compete for applicants but I think you'd need to be a real tool in the interview or fail all the exams to not get the job.

 

THERE IS NO PILOT SHORTAGE

let's all say it again:

THERE IS NO PILOT SHORTAGE

...only a shortage of pilots willing to work for regional FO compensation.

Raise the compensation (be it via higher minimum requirements reducing the supply of pilots available to Part 121 operators or otherwise) and a whole new demographic of 91/91k/135 pilots will emerge interested in flying a small get for an airline.