Justdoinmyjob

Umm, might want to revise those numbers upwards. I have 17 years of experience also, 14 with a part 121 carrier and already make $109/hr. And that was after major payrate concessions to the company. I would be making close to $130/hr or so under C2K rates. The amounts you propose only get us back to where the industry was in 2001.

robthree

The CRJ was built for Air Ontario; Air Canada pilots refused to give in on their scope, and so they were operated by Air Canada.


Results were somewhat different elsewhere.

dojetdriver

...ya think?

flyinawa

While I LOVE your idea, the reality is it would encourage airlines to hire people with minimal experience. Hell, even worse, start-ups like Skybus would either be exempt or would have 2500 hr wonder children driving the Airbus around from the left seat.

RAHPilot5

I agree however,

you want the E-170s/175s, you bring the pilots onboard with a fair integration and a no furlough gurantee. Anything less and yall can pound sand. Why should my family have to suffer because of the guys/gals that voted out scope.

TAKE IT ALL BACK! but you have to take the pilots with you. That is the honorable thing to do.

my 2 cents

BoilerUP

The only fair integration (in my opinion) would be a staple of small jet pilots to the mainline list, with an appropriate fence providing seat, domicile, & equipment protections to the small jet pilots from potential downbidding large jet pilots. Any vacancies may be bid by any pilot (small jet to large jet or vice versa), and a pilot may hold anything their seniority allows as long as it is in accordance with the bump/flush protections. All small jet pilots have the right to bid for large jet positions before they are awarded to newhires.

A staple of small jet pilots is appropriate in this instance IMO because a small jet pilot has no expectation of flying a narrowbody (or larger) airframe at their current small jet employer. At the same time, a senior small jet pilot also has no expectation of being displaced from their seat, domicile & equipment by junior mainline pilots suddenly given "super-seniority" on the list.

Being placed at the bottom of an existing mainline list small jet pilots the future benefit of larger, higher-paying airframes in exchange for the short-term risk of being furlough fodder.

The question, ultimately, is this: is the long-term upside of such an arrangement worth the short-term downside?

GrummanCT

If the price was right, would anyone seriously give a crap whether they were flying a 1900, E-190 or 777?

dojetdriver

Agree with what you are saying, but just playing devils advocate.

In the case of a furlough, and downward slide, where do the "narrow body" pilots go? Do the "small jet" pilots get sent to the street while the "narrow body" pilots take those seats?

Point I'm getting at is this, previously the "small jet" pilot had "no expectation" of moving up, just the like the "narrow body" pilot had "no expectation" of being able to flow down to the "small jet", now he does.

xtreme

Except the price is never right for some people. They will complain either way.

BoilerUP

I acknowledged that a small jet pilot had no expectation of moving up, while a narrow body pilot had no expectation of flowing down. That is where the conflict and gnashing of teeth begins: is the future upside potential of having larger, higher-paying equipment available to bid worth the immediate risk of being furlough fodder?

The only way such an integration of small jet lift back into mainline (after it was given away a decade ago) would be palatable to mainline pilots is to have access to those small jobs, and the only way for it to be palatable for small jet pilots is for their jobs to go with those jets to mainling along with some guarantee that most of them wouldn't immediately get furloughed.

I don't have a simple, easy solution to that...I'm not sure anybody does. But my own personal opinion is yes, the long-term upside is worth the short-term risk. I've always said I'd rather be furloughed from the bottom of a mainline list than anywhere on a regional list; my opinion may not necessarily be shared by others.

I think the proliferation of contract lift will prevent this kind of integration/reacquisition of scope from ever happening...but the fact its being discussed is a start. Bottom line is if these discussions are to become anything other than an academic exercise, BOTH parties (mainline and regional) need to put their egos aside and realize BOTH will need to make sacrifices near-term for their mutual benefit long-term. Knowing the pilot mentality, I'm not sure that would ever be possible.