United warned about pilot shortage
06-07-2006 | 09:47 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 548
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From: Retired 767 Captain
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Dear Bolt,
Please I am highly flattered and honored by your homage to me in every post. By all means leave the quote.
I think that the airlines take an assembly line approach to flying that reduces the actual skill and ability down to near rote memorization. Safety demands a sterile system that mostly removes the human element as risk. The results are that pilots are spoon fed information from dispatch and lead around like dogs by ATC. Airline pilots are not supposed to think for themselves but instead are taught to refer to manuals and decision trees for guidance. In an emergency the crew member is supposed to regurgitate a canned response like a computer and they are assessed by how well they can resemble automation. I don't know if you have any other flying experiences outside of the airlines but I can assure you that it is very different. However, if you like to feel good about what you do and think you are a superman then that is great.
SkyHigh
Please I am highly flattered and honored by your homage to me in every post. By all means leave the quote.
I think that the airlines take an assembly line approach to flying that reduces the actual skill and ability down to near rote memorization. Safety demands a sterile system that mostly removes the human element as risk. The results are that pilots are spoon fed information from dispatch and lead around like dogs by ATC. Airline pilots are not supposed to think for themselves but instead are taught to refer to manuals and decision trees for guidance. In an emergency the crew member is supposed to regurgitate a canned response like a computer and they are assessed by how well they can resemble automation. I don't know if you have any other flying experiences outside of the airlines but I can assure you that it is very different. However, if you like to feel good about what you do and think you are a superman then that is great.
SkyHigh
06-07-2006 | 11:55 AM
#42
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Originally Posted by fireman0174
I told myself that I would stop responding to your senseless postings, but I want to point out to the forum users why people should avoid your drivel.
Your statement "Airline pilots are not supposed to think for themselves but instead are taught to refer to manuals and decision trees for guidance" is an example of what I'm taliking about.
Being a Captain is not about flying the airplane, but rather about exercising good judgement and knowing when to dig in your heels when it's needed.
Here's an example of what happens when pilots "... take an assembly line approach to flying that reduces the actual skill and ability down to near rote memorization.".
http://www.airlineempires.net/index....d=80&Itemid=79
Your statement "Airline pilots are not supposed to think for themselves but instead are taught to refer to manuals and decision trees for guidance" is an example of what I'm taliking about.
Being a Captain is not about flying the airplane, but rather about exercising good judgement and knowing when to dig in your heels when it's needed.
Here's an example of what happens when pilots "... take an assembly line approach to flying that reduces the actual skill and ability down to near rote memorization.".
http://www.airlineempires.net/index....d=80&Itemid=79
Wasn't the cause of that Air Florida crash because the crew failed to follow the check list and proper procedures? Besides if we didn't have such a system of repetition and rote memorization then we would have a crash or two a month. In the airlines thinking is dangerous.
SkyHigh
06-10-2006 | 02:57 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
From: Telecom Company, President
You guys are hilarious, fighting between ERAU and UND rivalry horse****. How stupid can some of you be.
The bottom line, and its pretty far down there, is that most you over pampered goombahs with too much of Daddy's money in your pocket are going to go give that to someone like an ERAU, or UND get your ratings and tinkertoy degree, turn around and go compete for jobs that pay about the same as what a McDonalds manager makes. 20 to 22 a flight hour?? And you spent HOW MUCH at that specialty Av University?? Give me a friggen break.
Opportunities in aviation have been getting slimmer and slimmer every year. And now you bongo heads are competing for the dust at the bottom of the bowl.
The smart ones amongst you will quit fighting over stupid **** like which Overpriced Pilot ***** School is better than the other, go take the extra money and get your MBA or other advanced degree and make real money in some non av job. Then buy your Citation or King Air and enjoy that on your off time. Or charter it and make more money.
The bottom line, and its pretty far down there, is that most you over pampered goombahs with too much of Daddy's money in your pocket are going to go give that to someone like an ERAU, or UND get your ratings and tinkertoy degree, turn around and go compete for jobs that pay about the same as what a McDonalds manager makes. 20 to 22 a flight hour?? And you spent HOW MUCH at that specialty Av University?? Give me a friggen break.
Opportunities in aviation have been getting slimmer and slimmer every year. And now you bongo heads are competing for the dust at the bottom of the bowl.
The smart ones amongst you will quit fighting over stupid **** like which Overpriced Pilot ***** School is better than the other, go take the extra money and get your MBA or other advanced degree and make real money in some non av job. Then buy your Citation or King Air and enjoy that on your off time. Or charter it and make more money.
06-13-2006 | 05:38 AM
#45
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 0
From: B-737 Pilot
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Wasn't the cause of that Air Florida crash because the crew failed to follow the check list and proper procedures? Besides if we didn't have such a system of repetition and rote memorization then we would have a crash or two a month. In the airlines thinking is dangerous.
That AF crash was caused by nothing more than management GREED.
06-13-2006 | 05:58 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
From: Right Seat 744
Originally Posted by IronWalt
You guys are hilarious, fighting between ERAU and UND rivalry horse****. How stupid can some of you be.
The bottom line, and its pretty far down there, is that most you over pampered goombahs with too much of Daddy's money in your pocket are going to go give that to someone like an ERAU, or UND get your ratings and tinkertoy degree, turn around and go compete for jobs that pay about the same as what a McDonalds manager makes. 20 to 22 a flight hour?? And you spent HOW MUCH at that specialty Av University?? Give me a friggen break.
Opportunities in aviation have been getting slimmer and slimmer every year. And now you bongo heads are competing for the dust at the bottom of the bowl.
The smart ones amongst you will quit fighting over stupid **** like which Overpriced Pilot ***** School is better than the other, go take the extra money and get your MBA or other advanced degree and make real money in some non av job. Then buy your Citation or King Air and enjoy that on your off time. Or charter it and make more money.
The bottom line, and its pretty far down there, is that most you over pampered goombahs with too much of Daddy's money in your pocket are going to go give that to someone like an ERAU, or UND get your ratings and tinkertoy degree, turn around and go compete for jobs that pay about the same as what a McDonalds manager makes. 20 to 22 a flight hour?? And you spent HOW MUCH at that specialty Av University?? Give me a friggen break.
Opportunities in aviation have been getting slimmer and slimmer every year. And now you bongo heads are competing for the dust at the bottom of the bowl.
The smart ones amongst you will quit fighting over stupid **** like which Overpriced Pilot ***** School is better than the other, go take the extra money and get your MBA or other advanced degree and make real money in some non av job. Then buy your Citation or King Air and enjoy that on your off time. Or charter it and make more money.
Why pay for training....AIM HIGH!
06-13-2006 | 09:03 AM
#47
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Roll Inverted and Pull
SkyHigh is right on the money with this one...Through the process that he has described, the scheduled US aircarriers have become the safest place to be on the face of the earth. Safer than remaining at home (318 bathtub deaths last year), safer than riding a horse or mule (at least 200 here) much safer than driving a car (40-50 thousand of those per year) and motorcycles? I won`t even go there.
06-13-2006 | 10:36 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 455
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Originally Posted by GuppyPuppy
This is from the furlough coordinator at United.......
Total recall numbers are as follows (includes the 5 June 2006 Recall class):
Total pilots offered recall 1213
Total pilots still to be recalled 959
Total pilots back on property 445 =36.7% (248 this year)
Total pilots on LOA 229 =18.9%
Total pilots on Bypass 539 =44.4%
The most junior pilot to be offered recall is seniority number 7965.
959+(1213-445)=1727 pilots on 9/11/01 seniority list who haven't returned.
Total recall numbers are as follows (includes the 5 June 2006 Recall class):
Total pilots offered recall 1213
Total pilots still to be recalled 959
Total pilots back on property 445 =36.7% (248 this year)
Total pilots on LOA 229 =18.9%
Total pilots on Bypass 539 =44.4%
The most junior pilot to be offered recall is seniority number 7965.
959+(1213-445)=1727 pilots on 9/11/01 seniority list who haven't returned.
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