Cabin Decompression
07-10-2009, 06:39 PM
#12
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Airways gives lip service to the idea of "customer service."
Friday, July 10, 2009, 9:36am EDT
US Airways near worst for complaints
Charlotte Business Journal
US Airways Group Inc. ranked next to last for customer complaints in May among the country’s 19 largest airlines, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation.
US Airways (NYSE:LCC), which operates its largest hub at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, received 1.34 complaints per 100,000 passengers.
Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) of Dallas was best, with 0.13 complaints for every 100,000 passengers.
Delta Air Lines (NYSE
AL) had the worst rate for May, with 1.85 complaints per 100,000 passengers.
Arizona-based US Airways fared better in May for baggage handling and on-time performance, ranking eighth and 12th, respectively.
It mishandled 2.91 bags for every 1,000 passengers in May. US Airways had 79 percent of its flights on time that month.
US Airways operates 3,200 flights per day to more than 200 destinations in the Americas and Europe.
Friday, July 10, 2009, 9:36am EDT
US Airways near worst for complaints
Charlotte Business Journal
US Airways Group Inc. ranked next to last for customer complaints in May among the country’s 19 largest airlines, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation.
US Airways (NYSE:LCC), which operates its largest hub at Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, received 1.34 complaints per 100,000 passengers.
Southwest Airlines (NYSE:LUV) of Dallas was best, with 0.13 complaints for every 100,000 passengers.
Delta Air Lines (NYSE
AL) had the worst rate for May, with 1.85 complaints per 100,000 passengers.Arizona-based US Airways fared better in May for baggage handling and on-time performance, ranking eighth and 12th, respectively.
It mishandled 2.91 bags for every 1,000 passengers in May. US Airways had 79 percent of its flights on time that month.
US Airways operates 3,200 flights per day to more than 200 destinations in the Americas and Europe.
07-10-2009, 06:59 PM
#14
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Thanks for the early replies. You have no idea how helpful this is to me -- it is very distressing to have to deal with the front-end of the company. It is not pleasant to have somebody imply that you are crazy. I also appreciate the opportunity to talk to experts directly.
Thanks - I have thought about this since (from a medical point of view) and given the rapid descent, I question why they invest in the masks at all, other than for you guys in the front (given the insidious nature of hypoxic changes in judgment, etc.) given how rare decompressions are. It seems that a few minute descent from 39k feet would most likely not hurt anybody healthy enough to fly; if very rapid decompression we might go unconscious and wake up with a headache. 
The funny thing is, there are many parallels between our industries. During and after the incident the pilot was honest, forthcoming, and straightforward, which gave everybody trust. The airline corporation's actions are cagy and builds resentment and suspicion. After any procedure, I tell the patient everything that happened and what we did, and will answer any and all questions they have even if the procedure was complicated by any number of factors -- patients appreciate honesty and understand that not everything can be straightforward. I have been indirectly told to never say anything about a patient's surgery by "defensive medicine" experts. I don't agree with this.
I'd guess a very similar dynamic.
Originally Posted by Sink r8
Hi CardioMD,
[snip]
Rest assured we either a) have an out where we can descend promptly to 10,000ft, or b) have supplemental oxygen so that we can reach 10,000 before you run out of oxygen.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much more common slow depressurizations are than the rapid kind, but I would guess it's ten times more common. The latter seems to make its' way on CNN, while the former doesn't.
With that being said, I'm sorry you're getting poor answers when trying to confirm something you know is ture. I assume it's deflection from layers of lawyers, surrounded by layers of incompetent fools, protected by layers of ignorant CSA's. The whole thing is run by greedy, incompetent, ignorant executives in the background.
[snip]
Rest assured we either a) have an out where we can descend promptly to 10,000ft, or b) have supplemental oxygen so that we can reach 10,000 before you run out of oxygen.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you how much more common slow depressurizations are than the rapid kind, but I would guess it's ten times more common. The latter seems to make its' way on CNN, while the former doesn't.
With that being said, I'm sorry you're getting poor answers when trying to confirm something you know is ture. I assume it's deflection from layers of lawyers, surrounded by layers of incompetent fools, protected by layers of ignorant CSA's. The whole thing is run by greedy, incompetent, ignorant executives in the background.
The funny thing is, there are many parallels between our industries. During and after the incident the pilot was honest, forthcoming, and straightforward, which gave everybody trust. The airline corporation's actions are cagy and builds resentment and suspicion. After any procedure, I tell the patient everything that happened and what we did, and will answer any and all questions they have even if the procedure was complicated by any number of factors -- patients appreciate honesty and understand that not everything can be straightforward. I have been indirectly told to never say anything about a patient's surgery by "defensive medicine" experts. I don't agree with this.
I'd guess a very similar dynamic.
07-10-2009, 07:10 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
First of all, nice job of documenting the incident with the internet links etc.
Your experience is EXTREMELY uncommon. I've been flying large jets for 31 years, and I've had far more than my share of inflight problems. Engine failures, electrical fires, etc. In those 31 years, I have never had a pressurization leak - a fast one or a slow one. They are EXTREMELY rare.
[snip]
Sounds like they did everything right. Even IF the cabin leak was slow, they couldn't take the chance that it could turn into a rapid leak. The decision to initiate an emergency descent is exactly what I would have done.
The airline's PR department pretending that nothing happened is also no surprise.
Hope this was helpful.
Carl
Your experience is EXTREMELY uncommon. I've been flying large jets for 31 years, and I've had far more than my share of inflight problems. Engine failures, electrical fires, etc. In those 31 years, I have never had a pressurization leak - a fast one or a slow one. They are EXTREMELY rare.
[snip]
Sounds like they did everything right. Even IF the cabin leak was slow, they couldn't take the chance that it could turn into a rapid leak. The decision to initiate an emergency descent is exactly what I would have done.
The airline's PR department pretending that nothing happened is also no surprise.
Hope this was helpful.
Carl
In all honesty, if he had not come on and shared any information with us, taking the airline PR approach, I'm sure everybody would have been terrified, angry, and suspicious. I have full confidence in the pilot and their actions, but am still confused about the lack of NTSB reporting. I would have liked to see this incident appear in the database; if it appeared I would have never contacted US Airways.
07-10-2009, 07:22 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by III Corps
While it may have seemed like 30deg, I have never had an airliner much of 10-15 deg nose low. They do come down rapidly with that pitch. It is not uncommon to see rates of descent in excess of 4000fpm and the flight track shows an overall rate of about 4000frpm
At 39,000ft, the cabin altitude would have been around 7800ft so the leak must have been a slow one. Masks usually deploy at a cabin altitude of around 14,000ft. No masks. No cabin altitude near 14,000ft. The standard drill is to descend to 10,000ft. and not only to level off but to decrease the onset of pressure in the ears, most crews will begin to shallow the descent nearing 10,000ft.
But above 10,000ft, you will begin to feel the effects of hypoxia, lack of oxygen and the ride to KPIT for the last :30 may have been sufficient to induce some symptoms. Remember that being dehydrated, having alcohol and other factors increase the onset of hypoxia.
That the company would say nothing happened is most odd. The crew would have had to advise ATC of the problem and while they may not have declared an emergency, it certainly fits the criteria for an incident.
Ms. Brosnan may be correct in that the crew may not have reported it. Some crews don't (??). But the FAA will probably have some record of the event and if not, your inquiry will gain their attention. You can google and find the FAA office in Pittsburgh and talk to them about your concerns.
At 39,000ft, the cabin altitude would have been around 7800ft so the leak must have been a slow one. Masks usually deploy at a cabin altitude of around 14,000ft. No masks. No cabin altitude near 14,000ft. The standard drill is to descend to 10,000ft. and not only to level off but to decrease the onset of pressure in the ears, most crews will begin to shallow the descent nearing 10,000ft.
But above 10,000ft, you will begin to feel the effects of hypoxia, lack of oxygen and the ride to KPIT for the last :30 may have been sufficient to induce some symptoms. Remember that being dehydrated, having alcohol and other factors increase the onset of hypoxia.
That the company would say nothing happened is most odd. The crew would have had to advise ATC of the problem and while they may not have declared an emergency, it certainly fits the criteria for an incident.
Ms. Brosnan may be correct in that the crew may not have reported it. Some crews don't (??). But the FAA will probably have some record of the event and if not, your inquiry will gain their attention. You can google and find the FAA office in Pittsburgh and talk to them about your concerns.
I thought it was just the "Continuous Descent Approach" that I had read about once, but was more steep than anything I had experienced in an airliner before.Regarding the FAA - also thanks -- I might do this. Of course, my goal is not to be punitive, and I think that perhaps the PR department does not want to "acknowledge" anything for fear that I claim the hypoxia damaged me or something. (?) I'm not sure, but this IMHO is the wrong approach to take. I certainly hope the crew reported this; if nothing else a problematic or leaky cabin is probably not going to get better by itself?
07-10-2009, 07:28 PM
#17
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As a pilot, the only paperwork I'd have filed if it happened to me would be an internal incident report and writing the problem up in the aircraft maintenance logbook....and I guess an report to ATC if requested. I'm not sure what the company requirements are but for pilots, contacting the NTSB isn't one of them.
07-10-2009, 10:45 PM
#19
Da Hudge
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I had something similar to what cardiomd experienced during my CRJ days.
We had a pack deferred (thus single pack), and the second pack failed.
I noticed it in my ears first, then saw the screen and noted the second pack off annunciation- called it out to the CA... We donned our masks and did a rapid descent down to 10,000...ended up returning to MEM.
The cabin never got above 10,000 feet, as the CRJ was restricted to FL250 on a single pack.
I'll leave much of the rest of the details out, as it was a bit embarrassing- I did not agree with many of the captain's decisions and CRM in the process. Needless to say, he still works at the regional level....
We had a pack deferred (thus single pack), and the second pack failed.
I noticed it in my ears first, then saw the screen and noted the second pack off annunciation- called it out to the CA... We donned our masks and did a rapid descent down to 10,000...ended up returning to MEM.
The cabin never got above 10,000 feet, as the CRJ was restricted to FL250 on a single pack.
I'll leave much of the rest of the details out, as it was a bit embarrassing- I did not agree with many of the captain's decisions and CRM in the process. Needless to say, he still works at the regional level....
07-10-2009, 11:00 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by cardiomd
Thanks - I have thought about this since (from a medical point of view) and given the rapid descent, I question why they invest in the masks at all, other than for you guys in the front (given the insidious nature of hypoxic changes in judgment, etc.) given how rare decompressions are. It seems that a few minute descent from 39k feet would most likely not hurt anybody healthy enough to fly; if very rapid decompression we might go unconscious and wake up with a headache.
I'm glad that your incident wasn't too serious. Slow decompression are pretty uneventful as long as they're caught early (something they didn't notice in the Payne Stewart accident). I hope my information helped and if it is wrong please correct me. Like I said, its been a little while since I look at this stuff.
Cheers!
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