HELP! CRM needed
07-13-2009 | 03:11 AM
#1
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: Guppy Capt.
HELP! CRM needed
Hi all, didn't know where to post this, so...
Anyhow, looking for an event that happened a few years ago. I think it was Air New Zealand. They were shooting an approach into some island, and the F.O. (?) spoke up because it didn't look right. They went around, and were OK. I have to do a safety presentation for Amtrak ground school, and I am doing it on CRM (or C/L/R as UAL calls it), and this is going to be one instance where CRM worked.
THANK YOU for your input. Any other references where CRM WORKED would be great. I have PLENTY where it DID NOT.
ONLY six more weeks!!! (read sarcasm)
Anyhow, looking for an event that happened a few years ago. I think it was Air New Zealand. They were shooting an approach into some island, and the F.O. (?) spoke up because it didn't look right. They went around, and were OK. I have to do a safety presentation for Amtrak ground school, and I am doing it on CRM (or C/L/R as UAL calls it), and this is going to be one instance where CRM worked.
THANK YOU for your input. Any other references where CRM WORKED would be great. I have PLENTY where it DID NOT.
ONLY six more weeks!!! (read sarcasm)
07-13-2009 | 03:48 AM
#2
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From: F/O- G-V/550
here's one about bad CRM or what not to do (if you're interested)
an Asian airline (maybe Thai Airbus-310??).... the Captain was an "ex-pat", from the West somewhere, the F/O a national....they were on final, ILS but visual conditions, I think the captain was at the controls, A/P and A/Ts enagaged... the F/O said something like,"it doesn't look right", he said it twice or maybe three times, the Captain said something like "it looks normal"... seconds before touchdown, the F/O (non-flying pilot) reached over and pressed the TO/GA switch, but it was too late, the airplane was touching down as he did that, they ran off the runway.... once everything came to a halt, the captain asked the F/O "why did you do that"...... happened late 80s, maybe early 90s??
an Asian airline (maybe Thai Airbus-310??).... the Captain was an "ex-pat", from the West somewhere, the F/O a national....they were on final, ILS but visual conditions, I think the captain was at the controls, A/P and A/Ts enagaged... the F/O said something like,"it doesn't look right", he said it twice or maybe three times, the Captain said something like "it looks normal"... seconds before touchdown, the F/O (non-flying pilot) reached over and pressed the TO/GA switch, but it was too late, the airplane was touching down as he did that, they ran off the runway.... once everything came to a halt, the captain asked the F/O "why did you do that"...... happened late 80s, maybe early 90s??
07-13-2009 | 04:17 AM
#3
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From: left seat regional
I'd say United 232 is an excellent example of when CRM did work - they brought a third guy up to work the throttles and help control the airplane - people still died but the situation turned out pretty good considering how dire their circumstances were.
07-13-2009 | 05:56 AM
#4
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here's one about bad CRM or what not to do (if you're interested)
an Asian airline (maybe Thai Airbus-310??).... the Captain was an "ex-pat", from the West somewhere, the F/O a national....they were on final, ILS but visual conditions, I think the captain was at the controls, A/P and A/Ts enagaged... the F/O said something like,"it doesn't look right", he said it twice or maybe three times, the Captain said something like "it looks normal"... seconds before touchdown, the F/O (non-flying pilot) reached over and pressed the TO/GA switch, but it was too late, the airplane was touching down as he did that, they ran off the runway.... once everything came to a halt, the captain asked the F/O "why did you do that"...... happened late 80s, maybe early 90s??
an Asian airline (maybe Thai Airbus-310??).... the Captain was an "ex-pat", from the West somewhere, the F/O a national....they were on final, ILS but visual conditions, I think the captain was at the controls, A/P and A/Ts enagaged... the F/O said something like,"it doesn't look right", he said it twice or maybe three times, the Captain said something like "it looks normal"... seconds before touchdown, the F/O (non-flying pilot) reached over and pressed the TO/GA switch, but it was too late, the airplane was touching down as he did that, they ran off the runway.... once everything came to a halt, the captain asked the F/O "why did you do that"...... happened late 80s, maybe early 90s??
07-13-2009 | 06:51 AM
#7
seeing the country...
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: 73N A
This is the incident you're looking for:
Air New Zeland, Flight 60 (NZ60)http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/apac/cnsmet_sg6/wp39.pdf
I've seen a video in recurrent ground school about it that included a recreation of that night. I don't remember if it was a Boeing video or not.
edit: I found the video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GelRBhJ4gmI
Air New Zeland, Flight 60 (NZ60)http://www.icao.int/icao/en/ro/apac/cnsmet_sg6/wp39.pdf
I've seen a video in recurrent ground school about it that included a recreation of that night. I don't remember if it was a Boeing video or not.
edit: I found the video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GelRBhJ4gmI
Last edited by iaflyer; 07-13-2009 at 06:54 AM. Reason: Added video
07-13-2009 | 07:52 AM
#10
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From: Guppy Capt.
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