Why does Southwest stay domestic?
07-23-2009 | 06:47 AM
#23
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Like every airline, SWA is maturing. With that comes higher costs. SWA's pilot costs alone are higher than anyone else out there. Yes, their efficiency is awesome, but 95% of airlines have copied it.
SWA is going to have to find a way to spread these costs out. The best way to do this is to go international, and go after the Legacy carriers. They do this and three if not four of us our out of business. We ran for the woods when they did it domestically after 9-11. If they start in LA etc and then move to Europe, the Legacy carrier could not compete with them.
Problem is that WN has such an awesome balance sheet that they would just start to feel a little financial pressure when the rest of us would be on the floor. They have the money to kill any other carrier they want to. It will effect their bottom line to do this, but they can if they so choose.
I see them growing in the leisure markets South of the USA in the next three to five years.
SWA is going to have to find a way to spread these costs out. The best way to do this is to go international, and go after the Legacy carriers. They do this and three if not four of us our out of business. We ran for the woods when they did it domestically after 9-11. If they start in LA etc and then move to Europe, the Legacy carrier could not compete with them.
Problem is that WN has such an awesome balance sheet that they would just start to feel a little financial pressure when the rest of us would be on the floor. They have the money to kill any other carrier they want to. It will effect their bottom line to do this, but they can if they so choose.
I see them growing in the leisure markets South of the USA in the next three to five years.
07-23-2009 | 07:02 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
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From: A319 320 321 LEFT GOOOOOD
[quote=stbloc;649232]I'm sure the Mexican and Bahamian governments are really going favor Taca and Lan. I forgot how much more they fly to the Caribbean then all the US airlines. I guess Americans spending billions of dollars in there country annually does add up to any benefit to the local economy.
Last time in Cancun I couldn't believe how many Chileans there were.
That's how far south of the border US airlines operate? Do you know the names off all the countries in Latin America? Volaris is owned by Carlos Slim 3rd. richest person in the world, recently entered into code share with SWA and it owns 25% of TACA. LAN Chile is whole different animal, but I guess you knew that.
Cost is the real issue! North America is a continent; the countries south of the border are made off very small "tiny" countries. The flexibility that is provided in the US market makes the environment feasible for companies to operate. Here it is different, you will never know how deep the rabbit hole goes, political instability etc....
Just to give you an example how things work in "Latin America" It has taken the Costa Rican Gov 10 years to construct, develop and put in place a decent airport operation, 10 years! And still the novel hasn’t finished. And Costa Rica is the most progressive, stable, and secure; developed country in Central America, not Latin America.
TACA pay scales are below a regional in the US. Ten year Cap’s in TACA make around $5200 with benefits and per diem, and Embraer Cap's around $3200 MONTHLY. FA's $500 and Senior ones $1000. Ground staff depends on the minimum wage in their respective countries.
TACA is very close to any and all politicians in the region, and provides their very own "buddy passes". After the accident of TACA in Toncontin last year, the airport was closed by Zelaya, the president of Honduras. As he declared it unsafe to operate commercially, three months later it was reopened by lobbyists of TACA. Against Airbus, and its own pilots recommendations.
In Latin America we don’t have a body that regulates unfair competition, like in the US and Europe. Those bodies are in this case TACA and LAN Chile, Avianca etc, that write their own aviation law in their respective countries. In addition, low cost carriers have to operate to/from the same airports as legacy fly ins. Almost all major cities in Latin America have one airport, one less advantage for the low cost.
Anyhow I think it will be interesting to see how the low cost in Latin America will manage to take away the monopoly of the skies of these companies. You speak about “Billions of dollars” that Americans poured into Latin America, do you think they only fly with US carriers? How about corporate companies, private ones? Most economies south of the border depend on remittance s from Latin’s living in the US. So a large % of those billions are of illegal aliens in the US flying not only US airlines but their own country brand.
Last time in Cancun I couldn't believe how many Chileans there were.
That's how far south of the border US airlines operate? Do you know the names off all the countries in Latin America? Volaris is owned by Carlos Slim 3rd. richest person in the world, recently entered into code share with SWA and it owns 25% of TACA. LAN Chile is whole different animal, but I guess you knew that.
Cost is the real issue! North America is a continent; the countries south of the border are made off very small "tiny" countries. The flexibility that is provided in the US market makes the environment feasible for companies to operate. Here it is different, you will never know how deep the rabbit hole goes, political instability etc....
Just to give you an example how things work in "Latin America" It has taken the Costa Rican Gov 10 years to construct, develop and put in place a decent airport operation, 10 years! And still the novel hasn’t finished. And Costa Rica is the most progressive, stable, and secure; developed country in Central America, not Latin America.
TACA pay scales are below a regional in the US. Ten year Cap’s in TACA make around $5200 with benefits and per diem, and Embraer Cap's around $3200 MONTHLY. FA's $500 and Senior ones $1000. Ground staff depends on the minimum wage in their respective countries.
TACA is very close to any and all politicians in the region, and provides their very own "buddy passes". After the accident of TACA in Toncontin last year, the airport was closed by Zelaya, the president of Honduras. As he declared it unsafe to operate commercially, three months later it was reopened by lobbyists of TACA. Against Airbus, and its own pilots recommendations.
In Latin America we don’t have a body that regulates unfair competition, like in the US and Europe. Those bodies are in this case TACA and LAN Chile, Avianca etc, that write their own aviation law in their respective countries. In addition, low cost carriers have to operate to/from the same airports as legacy fly ins. Almost all major cities in Latin America have one airport, one less advantage for the low cost.
Anyhow I think it will be interesting to see how the low cost in Latin America will manage to take away the monopoly of the skies of these companies. You speak about “Billions of dollars” that Americans poured into Latin America, do you think they only fly with US carriers? How about corporate companies, private ones? Most economies south of the border depend on remittance s from Latin’s living in the US. So a large % of those billions are of illegal aliens in the US flying not only US airlines but their own country brand.
07-23-2009 | 11:23 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
From: B-7ER JFK
07-23-2009 | 02:59 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
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When you make 50 million dollars in a quarter and have been profitable since the 1970's you dont have to answer who, what or why to anyone. The question should be why does everyone else fly international and lose money?
07-23-2009 | 06:34 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
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[quote=jet320;649498]
The post was why doesn't SWA fly to Mexico or Caribbean destinations. Were not talking talking LAN countries. I would bet the farm that the amount of people who fly LAN ot Taca to get to Mexico or the Caribbean are in the single digits if nor less then 1%.
I counted 68 flights from the USA to Cancun on Flight Aware. How many does TACA or Lan fly there in a day?
I'm sure the Mexican and Bahamian governments are really going favor Taca and Lan. I forgot how much more they fly to the Caribbean then all the US airlines. I guess Americans spending billions of dollars in there country annually does add up to any benefit to the local economy.
Last time in Cancun I couldn't believe how many Chileans there were.
That's how far south of the border US airlines operate? Do you know the names off all the countries in Latin America? Volaris is owned by Carlos Slim 3rd. richest person in the world, recently entered into code share with SWA and it owns 25% of TACA. LAN Chile is whole different animal, but I guess you knew that.
Cost is the real issue! North America is a continent; the countries south of the border are made off very small "tiny" countries. The flexibility that is provided in the US market makes the environment feasible for companies to operate. Here it is different, you will never know how deep the rabbit hole goes, political instability etc....
Just to give you an example how things work in "Latin America" It has taken the Costa Rican Gov 10 years to construct, develop and put in place a decent airport operation, 10 years! And still the novel hasn’t finished. And Costa Rica is the most progressive, stable, and secure; developed country in Central America, not Latin America.
TACA pay scales are below a regional in the US. Ten year Cap’s in TACA make around $5200 with benefits and per diem, and Embraer Cap's around $3200 MONTHLY. FA's $500 and Senior ones $1000. Ground staff depends on the minimum wage in their respective countries.
TACA is very close to any and all politicians in the region, and provides their very own "buddy passes". After the accident of TACA in Toncontin last year, the airport was closed by Zelaya, the president of Honduras. As he declared it unsafe to operate commercially, three months later it was reopened by lobbyists of TACA. Against Airbus, and its own pilots recommendations.
In Latin America we don’t have a body that regulates unfair competition, like in the US and Europe. Those bodies are in this case TACA and LAN Chile, Avianca etc, that write their own aviation law in their respective countries. In addition, low cost carriers have to operate to/from the same airports as legacy fly ins. Almost all major cities in Latin America have one airport, one less advantage for the low cost.
Anyhow I think it will be interesting to see how the low cost in Latin America will manage to take away the monopoly of the skies of these companies. You speak about “Billions of dollars” that Americans poured into Latin America, do you think they only fly with US carriers? How about corporate companies, private ones? Most economies south of the border depend on remittance s from Latin’s living in the US. So a large % of those billions are of illegal aliens in the US flying not only US airlines but their own country brand.
Last time in Cancun I couldn't believe how many Chileans there were.
That's how far south of the border US airlines operate? Do you know the names off all the countries in Latin America? Volaris is owned by Carlos Slim 3rd. richest person in the world, recently entered into code share with SWA and it owns 25% of TACA. LAN Chile is whole different animal, but I guess you knew that.
Cost is the real issue! North America is a continent; the countries south of the border are made off very small "tiny" countries. The flexibility that is provided in the US market makes the environment feasible for companies to operate. Here it is different, you will never know how deep the rabbit hole goes, political instability etc....
Just to give you an example how things work in "Latin America" It has taken the Costa Rican Gov 10 years to construct, develop and put in place a decent airport operation, 10 years! And still the novel hasn’t finished. And Costa Rica is the most progressive, stable, and secure; developed country in Central America, not Latin America.
TACA pay scales are below a regional in the US. Ten year Cap’s in TACA make around $5200 with benefits and per diem, and Embraer Cap's around $3200 MONTHLY. FA's $500 and Senior ones $1000. Ground staff depends on the minimum wage in their respective countries.
TACA is very close to any and all politicians in the region, and provides their very own "buddy passes". After the accident of TACA in Toncontin last year, the airport was closed by Zelaya, the president of Honduras. As he declared it unsafe to operate commercially, three months later it was reopened by lobbyists of TACA. Against Airbus, and its own pilots recommendations.
In Latin America we don’t have a body that regulates unfair competition, like in the US and Europe. Those bodies are in this case TACA and LAN Chile, Avianca etc, that write their own aviation law in their respective countries. In addition, low cost carriers have to operate to/from the same airports as legacy fly ins. Almost all major cities in Latin America have one airport, one less advantage for the low cost.
Anyhow I think it will be interesting to see how the low cost in Latin America will manage to take away the monopoly of the skies of these companies. You speak about “Billions of dollars” that Americans poured into Latin America, do you think they only fly with US carriers? How about corporate companies, private ones? Most economies south of the border depend on remittance s from Latin’s living in the US. So a large % of those billions are of illegal aliens in the US flying not only US airlines but their own country brand.
The post was why doesn't SWA fly to Mexico or Caribbean destinations. Were not talking talking LAN countries. I would bet the farm that the amount of people who fly LAN ot Taca to get to Mexico or the Caribbean are in the single digits if nor less then 1%.
I counted 68 flights from the USA to Cancun on Flight Aware. How many does TACA or Lan fly there in a day?
Last edited by stbloc; 07-23-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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