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Old 08-07-2009, 04:41 AM   #1  
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What does the term "Airline Transport Pilot" mean? How is it even sane, let alone legal, to allow any pilot to fly passengers around without this Rating? The FAA should have to answer for this insanity not the Company nor dragging the Pilot's name through the mud because of an accident. They are getting what they asked for/allowed. There is a reason why you need to have the following to even be qualified as a candidate:

Current FAA Medical Certificate
Minimum Age 23 to Hold an ATP Rating
FAA eligibility (one of the following)
Commercial Instrument Certificate
Military experience per FAR 61.73
Non-U.S. Commercial Instrument Certificate accompanied by an http://www.atpflightschool.com/progr...tion_61-75.pdf
Flight Time per FAR 61.159 Requirements:
1,500 Hours Total Time:
500 Hours Cross Country Time
100 Hours Night Time
75 Hours Instrument Time of Actual or Simulated Instrument Time:
50 Hours Must be in an Airplane
250 Hours PIC Airplane

Why isn't ALPA pushing the FAA to make this the bar for ALL Airline Pilots (Commuters as well)? This will also help make the case of pay increases across the board. I don't agree with $2,000 per hour pay (although it would be nice ) however, these qualification have a price associated with them and it's not $19 per hour. ALPA needs to establish the "industry standard pay". If you work for an AIRLINE that TRANSPORTS passengers in the capacity of a PILOT, you should be mandated by the FAA to have this rating (FO's and Captain alike). This needs to be at the forefront of ALPA'a agenda! You don't get the job unless you are qualified,... BOTTOM LINE! Thoughts??
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:43 AM   #2  
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We know what the ATP requirements are... Are you even a pilot?

If you look at other posts around here, you will find that just about everybody supports the changeover to ATP. It is airlines and management that don't want this because they know they will have difficulty finding people who are that experienced to fly for the poor wages and working conditions that are currently status quo.
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:49 AM   #3  
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He is absolutely right, even if he lacks a certain modicum of tact.
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:53 AM   #4  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Driver View Post
We know what the ATP requirements are... Are you even a pilot?

If you look at other posts around here, you will find that just about everybody supports the changeover to ATP. It is airlines and management that don't want this because they know they will have difficulty finding people who are that experienced to fly for the poor wages and working conditions that are currently status quo.
A more pertinent question is are you? Are you an Air Transport Pilot? You are correct that the ATA will fight this tooth and nail. But difficulty in finding people to fly for those poor wages is the whole idea. Safety however should trump the economics of it. Flying revenue passengers is not the place for OJT.
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:55 AM   #5  
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I am not attacking fellow pilots on this matter. However the point is if the FAA endorses this, companies will have no choice but to honor it. And If ALPA is truly committed to enhancing the lives of it's members, the FAA is truly committed to making commercial aviation safer, this should be at the forefront of their discussions. Don't seek to belittle my statement by asking me whether or not I am a pilot. For one, you wouldn't know the difference even if I told you no. Secondly, what does it matter if I am making a case that will improve the QOL of all commercial pilots. Thanks for your thoughts. Any other thoughts???
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:17 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReasonableMan View Post
I am not attacking fellow pilots on this matter. However the point is if the FAA endorses this, companies will have no choice but to honor it. And If ALPA is truly committed to enhancing the lives of it's members, the FAA is truly committed to making commercial aviation safer, this should be at the forefront of their discussions. Don't seek to belittle my statement by asking me whether or not I am a pilot. For one, you wouldn't know the difference even if I told you no. Secondly, what does it matter if I am making a case that will improve the QOL of all commercial pilots. Thanks for your thoughts. Any other thoughts???
It's a reasonable question, and one you didn't even directly answer. It's a poorly considered and postulated "point" (question?) that you try to make.

As it comes "ex nihilo", your post has the smell and feel of something other than what it tries to be.
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:28 AM   #7  
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Set the mins at ATP mins and if the airlines want to hire someone with out it then they should have to give said pilot their ATP certificate before they hit the flight line. Every applicant should be eligible to recieve their ATP in initial. Do it that way so pilots dont get forced to dump any more of their own money into this industry.
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:02 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltabound View Post
It's a reasonable question, and one you didn't even directly answer. It's a poorly considered and postulated "point" (question?) that you try to make.

As it comes "ex nihilo", your post has the smell and feel of something other than what it tries to be.

Now we know who atleast 2 of the commuter pilots without an ATP rating are on this site.

Any more thoughts on how we can get this ball rolling with extreme force. The point has been talked about before but what steps need to be taken to make this an FAR? Anyone?????
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:30 AM   #9  
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Reasonable Man, do YOU have an ATP?

I do. Didn't when I was at Air Wisconsin though...
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:44 AM   #10  
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Reasonable Man, do YOU have an ATP?

I do. Didn't when I was at Air Wisconsin though...
YES!!! The fact that you flew passengers without one is an unfortunate reality of our industry and needs to be stopped immediately for Safety and QOL reasons.

---BREAK, BREAK---

Any more thoughts on how we can get this ball rolling with extreme force. The point has been talked about before but what steps need to be taken to make this an FAR? Anyone?????
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