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Old 09-17-2009 | 11:30 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by jsled
What about scope? I thought AMR was maxed out at 25 700's unless mainline grew. Any change, or is Arpey just playing hardball?
AMR won an arbitration regarding an additional 22 CRJs. The whole thing was shAAdy and I was very surprised at the outcome, but AMR gets what AMR wants.
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Old 09-17-2009 | 01:09 PM
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Enough money to cement a JAL deal.

2-class RJ's.

Going after DAL (or former DAL) markets at JFK.

Lots and lots of destinations that look strangely familiar.

...

Did someone just throw a big rock in our puddle?
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Old 09-17-2009 | 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyby1206
AMR won an arbitration regarding an additional 22 CRJs. The whole thing was shAAdy and I was very surprised at the outcome, but AMR gets what AMR wants.
I'm very sorry to read that, because it didn't seem like a fair outcome. Then again, the arbitrator's hand was forced, and he had to make a decision, when in fact all arbitrators do is try to force compromise. There is nothing they hate more than having to make a controlversial call. Last one to really make him mad also ends up on the receiving end of the controversy (ask the USAPA guys).

It seems there were allegations of union letters to MAR gloating about the outcome. I've only heard hints about these "blood money" letters in the press, and don't know exactly what they consist of.

Last edited by Sink r8; 09-17-2009 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-17-2009 | 01:34 PM
  #24  
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Re: Athens question. Who knows? DAL and US fly to Athens out of JFK and Philly. Maybe even CAL? I just know that AA does not like going head to head with DAL in certain markets. But out of ORD, would make a lot of sense. I suspect we don't have enough airframes at the moment.

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Old 09-17-2009 | 08:12 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Flyby1206
AMR won an arbitration regarding an additional 22 CRJs. The whole thing was shAAdy and I was very surprised at the outcome, but AMR gets what AMR wants.
I thought the real scope violation here was in First Class seats at Eagle. I thought AA scope didn't allow any of its regional partners to have multiclass configurations.
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Old 09-18-2009 | 03:42 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
Enough money to cement a JAL deal.

2-class RJ's.

Going after DAL (or former DAL) markets at JFK.

Lots and lots of destinations that look strangely familiar.

...

Did someone just throw a big rock in our puddle?

It might have been a big rock, but I see RA and the boys up on the cliff pushing a 10 ton boulder with their pickup. I bet this escalates a little bit. Like I said, I bet we see DFW flights to new/old destinations in the future.

That JAL deal is far from over, but it was my initial thought that DAL might not want JAL, just access, or assurances for the Japanese government. If they get that they will be more than happy.
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Old 09-18-2009 | 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
It might have been a big rock, but I see RA and the boys up on the cliff pushing a 10 ton boulder with their pickup. I bet this escalates a little bit. Like I said, I bet we see DFW flights to new/old destinations in the future.
And who gains from this? We both have big boulders, and little ponds that are easily swamped. I don't want to be in the business of diluting yields for the purpose of determining whose rocks are biggest. I'd rather we stay out of each other's markets as much as possible.

With that being said, Delta was always the first to blink. I'm glad to see we're not allowing poaching without a response, i.e. flights to PHX during the hostile (UsAirways) take-over, and response to SWA in both MDW-MSP and DEN-MSP.

That JAL deal is far from over, but it was my initial thought that DAL might not want JAL, just access, or assurances for the Japanese government. If they get that they will be more than happy.
Agreed. We would be OK with proper Haneda access, and if AMR pays a hefty price for JAL.

Last edited by Sink r8; 09-18-2009 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 09-18-2009 | 06:02 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Sink r8
And who gains from this? We both have big boulders, and little ponds that are easily swamped. I don't want to be in the business of diluting yields for the purpose of determining whose rocks are biggest. I'd rather we stay out of each other's markets as much as possible.

With that being said, Delta was always the first to blink. I'm glad to see we're not allowing poaching without a response, i.e. flights to PHX during the hostile (UsAirways) take-over, and response to SWA in both MDW-MSP and DEN-MSP.



Agreed. We would be OK with proper Haneda access, and if AMR pays a hefty price for JAL.
I agree, and I do not think that DAL and AMR will go to a point of putting themselves in a world of hurt. It will be tit for tat to a limit.

The goal IMHO is access if Open Skies is implemented. We need to realize that if we gain access or get JAL, we will more than likely drop our formal complaint against open skies. That clears the way, so there is some benefit to going with DAL. More than just the AF/KLM/DAL/Alaska/SkyTeam/Olympic codes share/ JV.
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Old 09-18-2009 | 06:45 AM
  #29  
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I wonder if this perhaps puts the financing in a different light:

American Air sees Q3 traffic, revenue drop - Yahoo! Finance

I was struck by this:

"...American said its expects to end the third quarter with a cash balance of least $3.7 billion, including the $1.2 billion in cash related to financing it announced Thursday..."

That would suggest "only" 2.5 billion without the 1.2 billion in additonal cash. That would be a relatively low number for an operation of their size. It makes you wonder if the additional funding is for offense, or defense. Is the gorilla awakening, or perhaps trying to cover up a wound?

I'm witholding judgment. For starters, I don't have the numbers to understand whether the final cash on hand excludes some expected tarnsaction (i.e. JAL), which would make cash on hand much higher otherwise. Just as DAL released better yield and revenue expectations for the second half, then said cash on hand would actually be 400 million lower (at 4.6 billion) at the end of the year vs. end of the September quarter. Maybe that inlcudes the addition of 500 in new debt, minus some unspecified transaction (i.e. JAL) also...

So maybe Delta released said positive numbers to get attractive terms on the additional debt, and maybe AMR is releasing poorer numbers once it received additional financing, to make it more difficult in the short-term for other airlines to borrow?
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Old 09-18-2009 | 06:50 AM
  #30  
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Or both are taking in to account spending about 500 million on JAL.

DAL's forecast was offered prior to the release of the new notes, so I would hope that it was not included in a forecast before it was offered.
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