+1 Slowplay. The jetBlue pilots have a great product; however, they are compensated below average. Ironically, they seem to be one of the happier pilot groups out there.

The rest of this industry needs the jetBlues and SWAs to significantly raise the bar. Otherwise, we aren't restoring this profession.

 

That's a funny statement. Ignorant, but funny...

 

There seems to be limited connection between pay and pilot happiness. JetBlue is a prime example.

UAL, AAA, and DAL all had industry leading pay this decade (AAA only lasted about 2 months). Those were some of the most contentious times at each of the carriers.

LUV consistently paid 60-70% of industry average hourly pay, but growth and profit sharing along with great labor relations (requires both sides to play) kept that group very content for 35 years. UPS guys went from relatively low wages in the early 90's to where they are today. Pilot happiness there hasn't seemed to go up. Look at the regionals, where (just one example)RAH guys aren't paid what they're worth but seem happy to do the job because of growth and upgrades.

I guess certain management and labor groups have found a different paradigm. I know I'm happier now at Delta making slightly less than I did in 2005 because it looks like we finally have a plan to win. We just need a couple of breaks for that to happen. If, however, there's not a payoff to the colaboration in either growth or compensation (I see one in what they're currently doing, no major backsliding/furloughs), then it will be tough to maintain this path.

 

What is it that makes it great? What's the difference between great and average?

 

How is it below industry average in comparison to pay, we now have the highest paid E190 pilots and our A320s are exactly average compared to (AMR, DAL, CAL, US, LUV, Alaska, NW). And to answer your question about PTO we get 9 hours of PTO per month (years 1-5, goes up after that). If you call in sick or need a personal day you can choose to use PTO or not and it will be credited toward premium, if taking the time off will drop you below the guarantee you have to use PTO, we also have PTO buyback and if you have more than 100hrs of PTO you can sell it back to the company at your premium rate, and in December you can have less than 100 hours and still sell it back at your premium rate. If you take Vacation it uses 24.5 hours of your PTO but credits 35 hours. Our STD/LTD, OJI and 401K are next on the improvement list and we will get another amendment to our PEA's when those are finalized in the next few months.

 

Because many of those airlines current contracts are concessionary contracts. They are the results of Pay CUTS, not raises. Plus, a contract is about much more then pay. JB's contract lacks A LOT. It goes way beyond pay.

 

You might want to do the math on that average again, Mike. I used the actual January 1, 2010 rate for DAL/NWA (same) A320, and the 737NG rate for CAL, ALA, and LUV. I admit I didn't include LCC, as they have discussed parking their E-190 fleet and are in the middle of some fairly significant labor turmoil that has them working at bankruptcy wages through stupidity. I also didin't include the value of the retirement contributions in those numbers.

So does PTO equal all your sick and vacation plus personal days that you can be paid for in a year? How much does it go up after that? By comparison, year 9 at Delta is 240 hours of sick leave (an average of 100 per year at 100% pay, the rest at 75%), plus 42 hours of vacation.

 

I'll take being miserable at work (it's been that way from my very first interaction with airline management 25 years ago) but I want to be the highest compensated in the industry. Call me shallow but, I am in this for the paycheck. The sunshine enemas and all that happy smoke that gets blown into every orifice below your belt line and aft of your out-seams wears thin after a few years. The smiley crowds like AW, PEX and LUV (rapping tunes for pax briefings?) always reminded me more of a sorority that owned an airline during rush week, than an airline focused on safe & efficient classic transportation. I guess there is room for many business models, but for me; tradition, a semi-adversarial - mistrusting relationship between my union and my employer and a large compensation package.

The contracts that BLUE is being compared to are all concessionary.

 

They could try comparing them to FDX and UPS, we where below the norm with our current contracts prior to all of the ones being used for benchmarks took concessions, many of them forced upon them during bankruptcy. It would get them closer to the historic compensation for pilots.

 

So what are the annual increases come June 2010 and so on?