USMCFLYR

WOW! That seem incredible. I thought you guys had thrust reversers and such to help out too. This type of relationship certain doesn't translate in my aircraft and I only have speed breaks to help out (and I don't normally use them), and I am of course talking land based here .
My regular approach speeds are around 135 kts and I can, and have, comfortably landed at 150+ kts for a variety of reasons and I didn't use 15,000 of extra runway!
I guess I ought to be a little more worried next time I go into San Diego that the crew is flying right at the required approach speed because that runway looks awfully short enough!

USMCFLYR

acl65pilot

In the CRJ, it is the float factor in that jet.

I fly to SAN all of the time, what the 767/757 has that many airplanes don't is great brakes.

Denny Crane

As you know, you can land at speeds above normal approach and landing speeds but why would you if it is not necessary due to conditions? In my opinion, landing fast (even 5 knots), if not necessary for conditions, is building a bad habit pattern for the future when you might need to be precise. I had an instructor, whom I greatly respected and who was a great pilot, once tell me exactly what I'm asking now. If you can hold 5 knots above proper speed, why aren't you holding proper speed? I didn't have a good answer for him.

ACL is right about the float factor in a heavy (not fighter!!). I don't know the exact numbers but you will definately add greatly to your landing distance unless you touchdown fast.

My point is, when you are flying a fully loaded 767 into LGA on the expressway visual you do not want to be fast and float down the runway with the associated problems. If you are on speed in these situations you eliminate a host of possible problems.

Denny

USMCFLYR

1st bold: Agree completely - if not due to some reason that the pilot feels he needs to carry a few extra knots. Of course my post was more addressing the landing distance estimation if landing a few knots faster than normal rather than the exercise of why someone would be landing fast to begin with.

2nd bold: If someone is holding a few knots extra for a reason then he really isn't building bad habit patterns - for the present or the future.
Btw - it isn't as necessary for me than many others I know (usually land based) - but I promise you that you would never need to be more precise on landing than many of my peers have to be on a regular basis. They have pretty good habit patterns built when it comes the landing pattern and such

3rd bold: This is good advice (and attention to detail) holds true for more than just airspeed too - wouldn't you agree? Altitude, heading and any other deviation one can think of all fit into this same category. It is all about attention to detail - without losing the big overall picture of course!

4th and final bold: Now this makes alot of sense - talking FLOAT factor rather than stopping distance. Again - I don't think much about the float factor right now - but I hope too in the future
Still seems a little excessive, and I'm not into the math enough to try and figure it out, but I can see where it eats up plenty of extra runway to bleed off some amount of *extra* airspeed.

USMCFLYR

Denny Crane

I agree with everything you say. In regards to your second bold, that is why I prefaced it with "if not necessary for conditions." If you need to do it then you are not flying 5 knots (or whatever) fast, you are on speed.

I absolutely agree that it is all about "attention to detail" on all aspects while maintaining a big picture. That same instructor said the same thing when I was holding altitude a 100' high thinking that was close enough. I can still hear him saying "If you can hold it 100' high you can hold it on altitude. Now get down there!!" Some people may call it anal, but I call it being a professional pilot.

Good luck with your future endeavors!

Denny

forgot to bid

Somebody once told me there is no max crosswind component listed for the DC-3, you simply look at a chart and fly a faster and faster speed given the wind strength. I like extra speed in a crosswind but on speed on a headwind keeping the power in til touchdown. But thats just me.

Denny, I too loved holding altitude at 100' above when I was getting my instrument rating and my flight instructor would just say "man, if they'd told you to hold 4,100', you'd be perfect. Too bad they didn't."

80ktsClamp

Great post, Denny!

Denny Crane

This is exactly what I was talking about as far as conditions go. Not every situation is cut and dried. This is where judgment, experience etc comes into the equation. All I'm saying is......fly the speed you decide on.....not 5 knots above (or below). On a normal, VFR, 5 knot additive, on speed (), I'll carry power till I break the sink or just before.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Denny

tomgoodman

For some instructors, a good answer would be: "Because you get far more upset when I am 5 knots (or 100 feet) low than when I am that amount high." For example, simulator IPs told us that the tolerances on flying at an MDA were pus 100 feet to minus zero feet, so we should "target" MDA plus 50 feet.

KC10 FATboy

As for speeds, I always fly off the ADI, you have speed, azimuth, and glideslope all in one place. The speed donut which I believe in most airplanes references ADCs and inertial accelerometers, in my opinion, is the best way of managing speed while on approach and landing. The airspeed indicator can be erratic durng gusts and will have you chasing power all the way down.