acl65pilot

And that sums up the view point of many of the pilots here. Simply put, it ain't for sale. Period.

Check Essential

It would take far more than minor tweaks. Read the front cover of our contract. ALPA National is the certified representative. By law, the NMB has final authority regarding who represents which groups of employees. Right now, it is ALPA National for all ALPA pilot groups.
Prater signs all contracts. Legally, its his signature that counts, not Moak's. Moak and all the other signatures are ceremonial. Changing that would be a major endeavor. ALPA can't do it unilaterally. The NMB has to sign off. Splitting into MALPA and RALPA would require much more than forming some new Executive Boards and Committees in Herndon. It would require a TOTAL split. Legally, financially and everything.

One other thing - the MEC said the intention is not to change the status quo regarding the flow-through. Fine "intention". The problem is they will not control the new Compass MEC and the Delta contract will not bind them if they wish to change (or eliminate) those provisions in a future contract of their own.

Mesabah

The question about 100 seat jets comes down to whether or not management wants them at mainline for full control over the product or not. I think management will want to keep them at mainline. However, what the pilots want has been mostly irrelevant, so far as what I have seen. There will always be enough tidbits to get the senior pilots to agree to managements wishes.

acl65pilot

I see you point and that is why it needs to be discussed. People are lashing out, and if it is not properly directed, bad things can happen. It is much better to look at the issues, and then find what the problems really are.

As you state above, it is an undertaking. I agree, there is a lot to it, point is that Pratter has to sign, but in the end we can take the economic and legal stuff down a notch and leave the political stuff at the top. I may be wrong, but there is a way to deal with the conflict if this is in fact what our pilots want. If so they will need to do a lot more than talk about it though.

I for one see ALPA as still relevant, and even though there are issues, they can be fixed. How? Who knows but ideas, even ones that need work is where change starts.

acl65pilot

And as I have told you, they can put the bait out but there are simply not enough to make them sell the 100 seat jet for much. Some think pension, and my response is that no one is dumb enough to sign on for something that could be taken away later.

Ya know screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me. If we would do something that stupid, we deserve what we get.

DAL 88 Driver

I hope you're right, ACL. But, with the current MEC, I have my doubts. I wouldn't have thought there was anything they could have done to get us to agree to the 76 seaters and another 14% pay cut either. But, with a full-court-press sales job from this MEC, they got about 60% of the pilot group to go along with it. The only way I see this dynamic changing is with a different makeup on the MEC. That is probably the biggest reason why the upcoming elections are so incredibly important.

acl65pilot

I think that there will be change come the 20 and 44 elections. If there we vote the status quo then we can get what we get.

Add the NWA guys in and like I said, there is a built in BS meter. I truly think that the dynamic of our group has changed and what happened with 46 and 51 would be very different today.

We will have a different make up. It may not occur with 44, but talking to the people that have called me, they want some sort of change. I just hope people take the time to get their ballot point pin etc and actually vote.

Speaking of that, take the time tomorrow or the next day and find that information. It makes voting a lot easier.

DAL 88 Driver

Totally agree. They key is change via the upcoming elections.

Last time we voted on something, I had to jump through the hoops to find my VIN and PIN. I decided to make it easier for next time by sending myself a text message with the VIN and PIN. I now have those numbers in my phone for easy reference. Looking forward to using them soon to take part in what I think is going to be the most important vote of my career.

Nosmo King

Okay, I'll throw a turd in the punchbowl.

There are also political considerations whenever you see a vote on representation issues. Sometimes it is as petty as allowing some pilots to switch Council Affiliation just prior to an LEC election.

Sometimes its about not allowing an additional voting rep on the MEC because you would then lose your "trusted" majority.

CPZ was/is a political wildcard. If we added one rep, LM would lose his 13 to 12 majority.

I realize that could also happen after the next election cycle, but I also heard this mentioned prior to the first joint MEC meeting.

Sometimes there is a reason behind the public reason.

Hopefully, in this case the turd will end up being a Baby Ruth bar. I believe Carl Spackler has dibs if that is the case.

Sink r8

A very interesting question. I always try to get to the real reason behind the stated reason, and I wondered whether there was a power angle to this. I haven't found it so far, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The Compass guy doesn't vote, and I think it's quite obvious from the discussion about conflicts of interest that the Compass guy should never vote. Unless, of course, we find a way to merge the companies.

One reason I agree with you that there might be a power angle is that the vote evidently was unanimously divided across the shoe line (North-South). People wonder why Moak's side was so unanimous, and of course one has to wonder why the North side was so unanimous. Was it a strong sense of duty towards the Compass pilot? Are we saying Moak was cpncerned about losing power but the North magically ignored such earthly concerns, and were not interested in conversely gaining votes? See how that works: if Moak was on defense, then we need to understand who was on offense. Right?

Now, let me turn this around: are you suggesting we should get the Compass a voting seat, and in so doing, allow the twelve that voted against Moak to be equal weight with Moak? Because, you see, that's saying NW + Compass, i.e. 5,300 pilots, should have the same weight as 7,000 pilots. That doesn't seem right either.

Which brings me to the next question, for you MEC watchers: is the MEC really 12 "North" and 13 "South"? If so, can someone explain to me how that came to be? By my calculator, if a group has 7,000 pilots out of 12,000, they should have about 14.5 votes.