1. When you pass your FMS descent point for your destination the Airbus gives you a tone and CAS message along with VNAV bars on your PFD display.
2.When you pass your last fix in the FMS (their destination in this case) the Airbus autopilot goes into heading hold with a tone and multiple CAS messages along with the fact that your little digital plane is flying off into the abyss on your big EFIS NAV display.
3. In the case of a missed frequency hand-off ATC would have called on 121.5
4. The airline has a similar system to AFIS to contact the crew that went unanswered.
5. ...and if you miss all that, 78 minutes of no calls from ATC didn't arouse their curiosity? Hope for an FA to send you a signal..

I hope you read this thread again - because I think it's a valid question.... the reason I ask is - when I jumpseat, I'm there because of their generosity. I am obligated to point out things (as they brief) that I am aware of that they aren't. One of these things is NOT PEDs.... and personally, I don't care.

I guess the answer for the jumpseater is (because I'm obviously not a skycop), is to help keep them out of trouble by mentioning, hey, you guys missed a radio call, or your TOD point looks like it's coming....

I think I answered my own question though..... hope you didn't take this as I actually would report someone, I just wanted thoughts on jumpseater responsibility with a crew who is not paying attention...

in this situation, I could potentially see, if a 3rd DAL-N guy had been there and been as engaged as them, that all 3 would have missed it - in that case, would the jumpseater get his/her certs revoked as well???

I'm with you Mako. The two knuckleheads who killed those people in Buffalo and the two knuckleheads who killed those people in KY didn't get this kind of treatment. What about the SWA guys who ran off the runway and killed that kid in Chicago? Did they get this kind of scorn and hatred thrown at them? (not a dig a swa, just an example).

The entire process has been short circuited by the press. In KY the press hung the tower controller. In Buffalo the press jumped on the fatigue issue. In both cases they ignored the true cause. I guess its our turn in the barrel.

I do not know about the 320, but on the 310 and 300, if the arrival has a heading after a point on the arrival, which is the norm on many arrivals, the fms creates a pseudo course outbound into infinity.

Advice.

When you are involved in a aircraft incident, shut up and get legal representation. Shut up until until your legal rep asks you to do otherwise.

Do not open the door of your house and talk to a camera, just shut the h up.

Actually, the union should defend them zealously and to the fullest extent of their ability.

I have no doubt that these two pilots have paid tens of thousands of dollars in dues to ALPA over the years. Promoters of ALPA ALWAYS cite ALPA's legal expertise as a primary reason for why it's so fantastic to have them on the property.

Do I think it will do any good? Not at all. Do they deserve the same legal defense given to any other ALPA member? Absolutely. Everyone in the union gets the same; that's the entire premise of a union shop.

very well said

If Joseph Balzer was let back in an airline cockpit(which I DO NOT agree with), I guess these 2 should also be let back in.

Drunk-in-the-cockpit tell-all book debuts at Oshkosh air show -- chicagotribune.com

Are you telling me that what these guys did is more egregious than landing on a taxiway? How is the loss of positional SA during cruise flight more egregious than loss of positional SA during a critical phase of flight?

If you are legitimately trying to imply that these guys intentionally disregarded safety, then it isn't much of a stretch to say the DAL crew intentionally disregraded safety when they ignored the blue lights, the lack of threshold markings, and the solid yellow line (vs dashed white lines) down the middle of the "runway". Be careful how you define intentional, because once the precedent is set it can't be taken back.

the difference in the FAA's view is that they willingly and intentionally disregarded safety by ignoring the aircraft for over an hour. The details on the DAL taxiway landing arent out (because the media didnt think it was a good enough story i guess) but they likely didnt "intentionally" landed on the taxiway. AGAIN i dont know the details and just assume that they accidentally landed on the taxi way.

The knowingly, willingly and disregarding safety part is whats going to get this crew in the end imho.