Ping: SWA pilots May I ask a question?
11-26-2009, 04:34 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 CA MIA
Posts: 1,042
Ping: SWA pilots May I ask a question?
I'm an AA pilot. We only have a last trip of the month cancellation policy (for Maintenance cancel only-all other last trip cancels are unpaid). If any other trip than that during the month cancels for any reason, we are not paid. We only get 64 hours.
To complicate this we have very restrictive duty free periods. So if any trip during the month cancels, and you then start a duty free period there is no way you can pick up a trip to get your time (pay) back.
Here's my question, what kind of duty free periods do you have. I'm pretty sure you and every other major airline have line guarantee. We don't. So we never ever know what we are going to be paid.
The reason I ask is on our union website there is a discussion of "would you like SWA's workrules?" I'd just like some firsthand info from an actual SWA pilot.
Thank you for whatever you may offer!
and Happy Holidays to all!
I have much to be thankful for
To complicate this we have very restrictive duty free periods. So if any trip during the month cancels, and you then start a duty free period there is no way you can pick up a trip to get your time (pay) back.
Here's my question, what kind of duty free periods do you have. I'm pretty sure you and every other major airline have line guarantee. We don't. So we never ever know what we are going to be paid.
The reason I ask is on our union website there is a discussion of "would you like SWA's workrules?" I'd just like some firsthand info from an actual SWA pilot.
Thank you for whatever you may offer!
and Happy Holidays to all!
I have much to be thankful for
11-26-2009, 06:55 AM
#2
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 6
You get paid whatever you line value says or the greater of what you flew. It's also on a day by day basis, so just because one day cancels, doesn't mean you're only going to get 90 or whatever for the month. If Day 1 cancels, and you overfly on day 2 by 1.0, you get 91 for the month.
And we have no restrictions other than 30/7 100/month 1000/year on picking up trips. However, open time is scarce now-a-days.
And we have no restrictions other than 30/7 100/month 1000/year on picking up trips. However, open time is scarce now-a-days.
11-26-2009, 07:16 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 737 CA MIA
Posts: 1,042
Thank you phatigued,
May i also ask (this may sound nieve) do you ever get reassigned? Do you ever worry about answering the phone on your day off if it's crew schedule?
At AA we all have 5-7 days a month that are your scheduled days off, that if you answer the phone and are sober then "Tag you are it" We call them DO's.
There's just a bunch of discussion amongst AA pilot whether SWA work rules could actually work for us or against us. Mind you it is just discussion on our union message board.
I don't know any SWA pilots and was just interested.
May i also ask (this may sound nieve) do you ever get reassigned? Do you ever worry about answering the phone on your day off if it's crew schedule?
At AA we all have 5-7 days a month that are your scheduled days off, that if you answer the phone and are sober then "Tag you are it" We call them DO's.
There's just a bunch of discussion amongst AA pilot whether SWA work rules could actually work for us or against us. Mind you it is just discussion on our union message board.
I don't know any SWA pilots and was just interested.
11-26-2009, 07:42 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
7576FO,
By your questions, in sounds like you're a fairly new guy to this industry. Although I don't drink, so when I was flying the line, I could never use that excuse if crew scheduling called, I know of plenty of guys who lived in domicile, who would never answer the phone without first having an adult beverage. And there are plenty of other guys who would have a second phone line installed (ie, MagicJack), that had its own unique ring, so that when the company (who was the only ones who had that number) called, they would decide if they wanted to talk to them or not.
Best regards and have a good Thanksgiving.
JJ
By your questions, in sounds like you're a fairly new guy to this industry. Although I don't drink, so when I was flying the line, I could never use that excuse if crew scheduling called, I know of plenty of guys who lived in domicile, who would never answer the phone without first having an adult beverage. And there are plenty of other guys who would have a second phone line installed (ie, MagicJack), that had its own unique ring, so that when the company (who was the only ones who had that number) called, they would decide if they wanted to talk to them or not.
Best regards and have a good Thanksgiving.
JJ
11-26-2009, 07:48 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-737 / FO
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by 7576FO
Thank you phatigued,
May i also ask (this may sound nieve) do you ever get reassigned? Do you ever worry about answering the phone on your day off if it's crew schedule?
At AA we all have 5-7 days a month that are your scheduled days off, that if you answer the phone and are sober then "Tag you are it" We call them DO's.
There's just a bunch of discussion amongst AA pilot whether SWA work rules could actually work for us or against us. Mind you it is just discussion on our union message board.
I don't know any SWA pilots and was just interested.
May i also ask (this may sound nieve) do you ever get reassigned? Do you ever worry about answering the phone on your day off if it's crew schedule?
At AA we all have 5-7 days a month that are your scheduled days off, that if you answer the phone and are sober then "Tag you are it" We call them DO's.
There's just a bunch of discussion amongst AA pilot whether SWA work rules could actually work for us or against us. Mind you it is just discussion on our union message board.
I don't know any SWA pilots and was just interested.
Our trips pay the following minimums:
1 Day Trip: 6.5 TFP
2 Day Trip: 13 TFP
3 Day Trip: 19.5 TFP
4 Day Trip: 26 TFP
You basically get paid the higher of what you block each day or the number of hours on duty times .74
Hope that helps some.
Last edited by HuronIP; 11-26-2009 at 07:59 AM.
11-26-2009, 07:51 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B-737 / FO
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by Jetjok
7576FO,
By your questions, in sounds like you're a fairly new guy to this industry. Although I don't drink, so when I was flying the line, I could never use that excuse if crew scheduling called, I know of plenty of guys who lived in domicile, who would never answer the phone without first having an adult beverage. And there are plenty of other guys who would have a second phone line installed (ie, MagicJack), that had its own unique ring, so that when the company (who was the only ones who had that number) called, they would decide if they wanted to talk to them or not.
Best regards and have a good Thanksgiving.
JJ
By your questions, in sounds like you're a fairly new guy to this industry. Although I don't drink, so when I was flying the line, I could never use that excuse if crew scheduling called, I know of plenty of guys who lived in domicile, who would never answer the phone without first having an adult beverage. And there are plenty of other guys who would have a second phone line installed (ie, MagicJack), that had its own unique ring, so that when the company (who was the only ones who had that number) called, they would decide if they wanted to talk to them or not.
Best regards and have a good Thanksgiving.
JJ
New to the industry? Anyone at AA has most likely been there for awhile I would think.
11-26-2009, 05:01 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
At SWA we don't answer the phone on our day off unless we know who's calling. So in that respect I guess it's the same as AA.
One big difference between SWA and AA is the amount and utilization of Reserve. At SWA we only have approx 8% of total lines sitting reserve. Consequently you can expect to work if you're on reserve....normally.
I'm not sure but i think AA has at least twice as many reserve lines. And I know AA has very cushy rules about passing on reserve etc. Additionally, with several different airframe types, it's easier to "see what's coming" on reserve at AA.
At SWA, with only one A/C type, as a reserve you are vulnerable to any trip in the entire system. It's much more flexible for the company and less predicable for the pilot.
HOWEVER, at the current time we are overmanned at Capt and undermanned at FO (it's slightly more complicated than that but I'm trying to summarize) so Capt Reserve is going senior and their not working very much and the FA Reserve is going junior and has a very high utilization rate.
Every month that I've been on Reserve as an FO I've made more than the minimum (i.e. actual trips flown exceeded the min guarantee).
One big difference between SWA and AA is the amount and utilization of Reserve. At SWA we only have approx 8% of total lines sitting reserve. Consequently you can expect to work if you're on reserve....normally.
I'm not sure but i think AA has at least twice as many reserve lines. And I know AA has very cushy rules about passing on reserve etc. Additionally, with several different airframe types, it's easier to "see what's coming" on reserve at AA.
At SWA, with only one A/C type, as a reserve you are vulnerable to any trip in the entire system. It's much more flexible for the company and less predicable for the pilot.
HOWEVER, at the current time we are overmanned at Capt and undermanned at FO (it's slightly more complicated than that but I'm trying to summarize) so Capt Reserve is going senior and their not working very much and the FA Reserve is going junior and has a very high utilization rate.
Every month that I've been on Reserve as an FO I've made more than the minimum (i.e. actual trips flown exceeded the min guarantee).
11-26-2009, 07:58 PM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: 73 capt
Posts: 49
Ping: SWA pilots May I ask a question?
To add another perspective, I am relatively senior at SWA. The cancellation policy that we have is for all assigned flying once it is on your board. So if you pick up a trip and it is canceled or double covered or whatever you get the pay once they put the trip on your board.
Right now it is a little tough to pick up trips but our extra trips are available to the line pilots first and then if no one wants it for straight time or no one is legal for the trip, it goes to the reserve system. The JA system is being changed because no one was answering there phones. If we get JA online it now will pay double. The system in my opinion works very well. I have always flown above my line and have average 120+ trips per month for the last 15 years. There is definitely a greed factor to it. Some guys fly 160+ and some just fly there line or even less. How it would work at AA I don't know. I have seen that they are trying to make you guys more efficient. But with our system we run lean on reserve so we employ less pilots overall ie more furloughs would occur over there.
Right now it is a little tough to pick up trips but our extra trips are available to the line pilots first and then if no one wants it for straight time or no one is legal for the trip, it goes to the reserve system. The JA system is being changed because no one was answering there phones. If we get JA online it now will pay double. The system in my opinion works very well. I have always flown above my line and have average 120+ trips per month for the last 15 years. There is definitely a greed factor to it. Some guys fly 160+ and some just fly there line or even less. How it would work at AA I don't know. I have seen that they are trying to make you guys more efficient. But with our system we run lean on reserve so we employ less pilots overall ie more furloughs would occur over there.
11-26-2009, 09:24 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Right 737
Posts: 85
Caveat, I don't fly reserves (assuming that's what the "duty free" time period is reference).
You are paid the greater of what you fly or your line. We DO have minimums, even for reserve holders. Reserve lines pay a minimum of 6 tfp per duty period.
Here's our latest CBA (the reserve section is about 4 pages long, but this is a bit):
...
2. Reserve lines will be built with no more than sixteen (16) Reserve days per line in a thirty- one (31) day bid period, no more than fifteen (15) Reserve days in a twenty-nine (29) or thirty (30) day bid period and no more than fourteen (14) reserve days in a twenty-eight (28) day bid period.
3. Blocks of Reserve will not exceed four (4) days. Reserve lines may be built with a carryout block just as a regular line.
4. A minimum of three (3) days off between three (3) or more day blocks of reserve is required excluding monthly overlap correction.
...
So in a 30-day month, you are scheduled for 15 days of reserve (which pays a minimum of 90 tfp). The CA I am flying with next month has not flown yet in November, as he sat home on reserve and has not picked anything else up (or couldn't).
Again, I don't sit reserve, but when I did, it sucked. Re-routes, add-ons, RAP changes, ..., though it was a busy time here. I hear lately it's not as bad.
Not sure if this helped, Happy Thanksgiving!
PS We have GDO & TGDOs (Training / Golden Days Off). 1 per month maximum with a 7 per year limit. There are some restrictions, like Xmas, but we can still pick up on a GDO; the company may not use you without your consent. I have not used a GDO yet, but I do use TGDO, which are used to protect time you need / want off during your training months.
It's late, again, hope this helped.
You are paid the greater of what you fly or your line. We DO have minimums, even for reserve holders. Reserve lines pay a minimum of 6 tfp per duty period.
Here's our latest CBA (the reserve section is about 4 pages long, but this is a bit):
...
2. Reserve lines will be built with no more than sixteen (16) Reserve days per line in a thirty- one (31) day bid period, no more than fifteen (15) Reserve days in a twenty-nine (29) or thirty (30) day bid period and no more than fourteen (14) reserve days in a twenty-eight (28) day bid period.
3. Blocks of Reserve will not exceed four (4) days. Reserve lines may be built with a carryout block just as a regular line.
4. A minimum of three (3) days off between three (3) or more day blocks of reserve is required excluding monthly overlap correction.
...
So in a 30-day month, you are scheduled for 15 days of reserve (which pays a minimum of 90 tfp). The CA I am flying with next month has not flown yet in November, as he sat home on reserve and has not picked anything else up (or couldn't).
Again, I don't sit reserve, but when I did, it sucked. Re-routes, add-ons, RAP changes, ..., though it was a busy time here. I hear lately it's not as bad.
Not sure if this helped, Happy Thanksgiving!
PS We have GDO & TGDOs (Training / Golden Days Off). 1 per month maximum with a 7 per year limit. There are some restrictions, like Xmas, but we can still pick up on a GDO; the company may not use you without your consent. I have not used a GDO yet, but I do use TGDO, which are used to protect time you need / want off during your training months.
It's late, again, hope this helped.
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