Originally Posted by shackone

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. What 'minimums', and what 'ranks'?

I might appreciate your strong opinions better if I knew your background. What are you self-employed at and how much PIC time do you have in the 757/737?

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

Sorry to disappoint. I have over 6300 hours TT and 1500 SIC in the 757. I also have a degree in aviation and almost 20 years in search of the dream.
The minimums I referred to were 190 part 141 commercial MEL.
SkyHigh

Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r

A real veteran.............:)

Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot

SkyHigh,

You are on the airline payroll, aren't you? You are the equivelant of oil analysts that say "OIL SHORTAGE! OIL SHORTAGE!" when there is no shortage at all, and OH GUESS WHAT? There's plenty of oil miraculously EVERY time and yet the prices went up 30% or MORE.
You do the reverse of this equation on people who actually need the money (verus mr. exxon) and I would NOT be surprised to find out they pay you to feed us with your CRAP.

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

I hold airline pilots in what I consider to be a realistic and balanced regard. They are not supermen or hero's. They will not solve world hunger or cure cancer. Their skills are not rare or unique. The job does not require any unusual mental abilities or education. They operate a complex machine on such a regular frequency that it reduces the operators to human automatons. You must be in your 20's to still hold such fantasies so I will not go on.

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

Sorry to disappoint. I have over 6300 hours TT and 1500 SIC in the 757. I also have a degree in aviation and almost 20 years in search of the dream.

The minimums I referred to were 190 part 141 commercial MEL.

SkyHigh

Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive

20 years and only 6300 hrs.? Are you counting the years from when you took your first flight lesson? If I did that I would be 23 years in "search of the dream".

You must have also had bad luck in picking airlines/employers.

I have over 8000 hrs, plenty of SIC time (1900, MD80, A-320). And something like 1300 hrs PIC turbine (1900,SF-340,MD-80,A-320).
I also have a degree in aviation (from THAT place).
And 23 years in search of the dream.

Maybe if you tried THREE more years, you'd be where I am. Happy, wife's happy,etc. I mean come on, it doesn't take much to BE and airline pilot right?

Skyhigh, you need to move on! Let it go! You didn't keep at it, didn't make the cut, grade, whatever. You say you want to warn others of the profession.
Let them talk to pilot's who stuck it out, who sacrificed for their dream. I would be honest with that person. It's like any other jobs. Good and bad.

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

Piloting isn't like every other job. Not by a long shot. Most other careers have transferable experience and education. As you know picking an airline is like horses at the track. Perhaps had I chosen a winner things would be different. You might think that you have all the right answers but it is impossible to tell who the winners will be.

I did move on. I am happy at me new profession and feel that it is important to tell others so they don't get slanted information from guys like you. Life as an airline pilot is full of surprises. You might be comfortable now but you don't know what the future holds. Someday you could be kicked to the curb and realize that there are few opportunities for a family man in the airlines.

My suggestion to you is to enjoy what you have but always have a plan "B". No one it seems is untouchable in this industry. Lastly I hope that you realise that luck had a huge part in your good fortune. A humble and empathetic attitude would suit you better.

SkyHigh

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

The life of an airline pilot involves endless repetition to a mind numbing degree, same airports, same hotel, same controller, same plane, same approach day after day.

Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive

Never said I had all the right answers. I was just saying, if you want to fly do it. If it doesn't work out the way you wanted, then move on.
I do have a "B" plan.
Never thought I (or ANYONE is untouchable).
Yes, I was lucky, to an extent.
Do I have a less than humble or empatheic attitude? If so, it is just to people like who have all the answers it seems, and sit here and talk bad about a profession which you aren't in anymore.

Originally Posted by Dizel8

Yep, professionals make it look routine. Look at Pete Sampras playing tennis or Tiger playing golf, they make it look soo easy.

Airline flying is a lot of routine, but once in a blue moon, the pilots truly earn their pay and the fact that there are so few accidents, should tell you of that skill. Sure, on clear blue days with sunny skies, I am overpaid, but in the middle of winter, with blowing snow, min viz,braking reported as action poor and an alternate that looks less than stellar, I earn every dollar and then some.

It isn't about heroics, or accolades and what you may consider hubris is simply confidence, confidence that when the fit hits the shan, we are capable of the task at hand.

Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot

There's someting I agree with you SkyHigh! I totally agree with the entire post for once. LoL ;) Remember everybody, everyone you see post here has their own experiences to talk about. You can only take each person with a grain of salt and read the next person. I hate to use this example, but I'm going to anyhow. Let's say you are on ebay (you know that place you get burned on every once in a while) looking to purchase a product from some XYZ seller. You go through their feedbacks pages and pages and find only minor negatives. Do you completely ignore them or do you take it into account? That's how I see these forums. You gotta take it with a grain of salt and know that people that actually are PLEASED with their jobs will statistically NOT respond or talk about it. The people who are dissatisfied will squawk and moan and groan until they no longer can even whisper. Can you blame them? No, but you gotta take it into account their bad experience is parralled by someone elses positive points. Like skyhigh said, keep a B plan and you're less likely to get burned.
Best Wishes

Originally Posted by Skywriting

The judge, jury, conscious, local whiner, use to be, has spoken.

All you dreamers and wanntabees stop that dreaming and take a dose of pure unadulterated dribble from Skyhigh and join the Skyhigh Army. Then you won't be able to drink, swear, run with wild wild women, play with flying machines and have fun. You will only stand on a corner and beat on a drum just like him singing. " Skyhigh Army, Skyhigh Army, put a nickle on the drum and save another Aviation Bum ."

Message is getting reaaaaal old, Skyhigh!

Originally Posted by bman484

The last time I made a post on this page was two to three months ago. As I was surfing the net today I found myself back on these forums. I am simply amazed to find Skyhigh, with a couple hundred more posts to his name, still ranting and raving...DUDE YOU ARE A PATHETIC INDIVIDUAL. If I could offer some friendly advice to other posters who genuinely use this website for information, my advice would be to ignore every single one of his posts...it's all the same stuff anyway, and if nobody responds to him, I bet he'll give it up real quick. Skyhigh, seriously man, find some help, you're messed up.

Originally Posted by HSLD

One thing I've noticed about the majority of users who disagree with Skyhigh is there isn't much follow-up dialog about the risks of starting into an aviation career. We all know it never is easy to "make it" to the top, although that's an understatement these days when considering the pursuit of a career in aviation.

I haven't read all 900+ posts, but Skyhigh's recurring theme that I read is one critical of the time/value/risk equation of spending a boat load of money to chase a job that may not pay for the cost of entry into the job market for whatever reason.

You may not like the message, and obviously don't care for the messenger, but as long as you don't personalize your objection you're more than welcome to participate here.

As Uncle Bose pointed out, contrary points of view make for good dialog and I think that there is plenty of productive dialog on this topic. I would disagree with your assertion that Skyhigh's posts don't help. For anyone thinking of pursuing, it's important to have full disclosure - the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. If they know all the facts, and still decide to go for it - then it should be encouragement all the way! Skyhigh doesn't offer that encouragement - that's true. But, it's disclosure that everyone looking to jump into the piloting profession should hear. Maybe we should consider it "tough love".

Originally Posted by SkyHigh

Some people really have no use in life outside of the flight deck. Others have desires for home, family, financial security and a higher life outside of aviation. Seems like you have found your purpose in life. Good for you. I am sure that your winning personality and aviation lifestyle that you have chosen will prevent you from propagating and that will serve an important end as well.

Good Luck !!

SkyHigh

Originally Posted by Skywriting

Wrong again!
Three grandchildren and one on the way, with every hope that they don't go through life with the negitive attitude that you have.
Even worse would be you propagating a brude of off spring with your outlook on life.
Best of luck to you also. Your going to need it!

Originally Posted by justchillin

Guys in 707's etc.also had a third guy sitting sideways............. not so anymore with 2 man cockpits !!

Originally Posted by Uncle Bose

Didn't early 707s have THREE guys sitting sideways? Radioman, navigator, FE. Christ, I need some air.

Originally Posted by duvie

I believe that one of the main reasons pilot wages are dropping is because of the relative ease involved in flying the newer aircraft. Our equipment is becoming so automated that our job doesn't take the skill it used to. Because airline flying is easier now than it ever has been, pilot positions are able to be filled by less intelligent, apt (insert whatever flattering adjective you want) individuals. Aviation is opening up to a larger crowd of people which increases the supply of pilots to companies. Increased supply of "qualified candidates" will decrease our wages.

This idea of supply and demand is a very basic concept and really can't be argued, so the issue at hand is the difficulty of flying modern aircraft. I don't think many pilots will refute that with all the research and engineering centered on human factors, safety and ergonomics aircraft have become much easier to operate. Compare flying a Beech 18 single pilot IFR to flying a 777 certified for CAT IIIc approaches. Apples and oranges? Sure. However, I think a lot more people could run checklists and monitor the 777 landing itself than could shoot a raw data approach in an aircraft that has more levers (oil bypass valves, cowl flaps, etc.) than very many since.

I think that the high level of automation and infrequency of serious emergencies has also lessened the value of a seasoned pilot. With all the standardization, training and information given to new hires the knowledge gap between the Captain and FO isn’t nearly as large as it once was.

I’m not saying that this trend is right or wrong, that we deserve more or less money. I’m just writing what I’ve observed and a possible explanation for why things are the way they are.

Originally Posted by HeavyDriver

When everything is working and the weather is good...Anyone can fly anything...It's when the poop hits the fan and the weather is crap that shows the true ability of airmanship...What's that saying?..."Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree then the sea, it is terribly unforgiving for any incapacity, inability, and neglect....Something like that.

Originally Posted by duvie

4th and Goal you've proved my point perfectly. Judging by the way you express yourself and the fact that you fly heavy jets is proof that it can't take that much inteligence.

Originally Posted by Uncle Bose

Agreed. How embarrassing to be (involuntarily) represented by someone like that...

Originally Posted by 4th & Goal

Wow Mr. Uncle Bose....You must be one of those guys still "trying to make it" huh? If you believe what Duvie has to say, than you have no chance in hell. Good luck.