duvie

I believe that one of the main reasons pilot wages are dropping is because of the relative ease involved in flying the newer aircraft. Our equipment is becoming so automated that our job doesn't take the skill it used to. Because airline flying is easier now than it ever has been, pilot positions are able to be filled by less intelligent, apt (insert whatever flattering adjective you want) individuals. Aviation is opening up to a larger crowd of people which increases the supply of pilots to companies. Increased supply of "qualified candidates" will decrease our wages.

This idea of supply and demand is a very basic concept and really can't be argued, so the issue at hand is the difficulty of flying modern aircraft. I don't think many pilots will refute that with all the research and engineering centered on human factors, safety and ergonomics aircraft have become much easier to operate. Compare flying a Beech 18 single pilot IFR to flying a 777 certified for CAT IIIc approaches. Apples and oranges? Sure. However, I think a lot more people could run checklists and monitor the 777 landing itself than could shoot a raw data approach in an aircraft that has more levers (oil bypass valves, cowl flaps, etc.) than very many since.

I think that the high level of automation and infrequency of serious emergencies has also lessened the value of a seasoned pilot. With all the standardization, training and information given to new hires the knowledge gap between the Captain and FO isn’t nearly as large as it once was.

I’m not saying that this trend is right or wrong, that we deserve more or less money. I’m just writing what I’ve observed and a possible explanation for why things are the way they are.

Taylor0289

Interesting! I'm not a pilot (yet) so I can't really have an opinion. All I will say is that for your first jobs, don't most pilots start out flying aircraft such as Beech's, Metro's, Caravans etc...? So therefore it would automatically weed out the lesser intelligent guys that can now flood the pilot group because of more automated planes (such as the 777 as you mentioned)? because you end up flying those later on in your career.

Keep 'er in the green duvie

Ottopilot

I understand what you're trying to say and you are wrong. I've flown old planes single pilot IFR and new glass cockpit airliners to CAT III zero-zero landings. They are different, but the newer doesn't mean easier. Pilot pay has come down for many other reasons, but that is not one of them. I have 11,000 hours and six airliner type ratings. Newer and automation create a whole new set of problems and lots more complicated training. Sometimes just keeping it simple would be easier.

HSLD

I'll concede that the hands-on stick-and-rudder skills are not used as much as they once were by airline pilots (not to say they are gone). However, as aircraft system redundancy and automation reduce workload, the workload is in fact increasing in an ATC over-capacity system.

Pilots still must have experience and judgment to perform safely in a very dynamic environment (which is independent of pay). You could pay a 400 hour pilot $25/hr to sit in the seat (many companies do) and that pilot still lacks the skill, experience, and judgment to operate [solo] in the modern airspace system even though he may know which buttons to push in the cockpit.

Wages reflect that negotiation environment for a CBA - nothing more. As the modern airline pilot moves from a stick-and-rudder ace of the base to a systems manager with superb situational awareness - the head work and judgment will not change.

IMO, this is what brings value to the negotiating table

B757200ER

Not to mention there are 200-300 people in back, relying on our expertise and experience to get them safely to their destination.

What is that worth?

STILL GROUNDED

So I take it then that Beech 1900 that I hand fly NDB approaches to mins because we don't have auto pilot or gps and which the FAA apparently has de-valued the lives of the 19 souls aboard (since its easier to fly I can be scheduled to fly 1200 hours a year, not the 1000 the boys with buttons get.)

I take it from your statement I am either a below average individual or I am terribly underpaid because my aircraft is not automated.

Nice guess on the problem. Lets see what the airlines do 5 years from now when they can't fill a new hire class with anyone with more than 250 hours because they have destroyed the lifestyle to the point where no one wants to put up with it for $60,000 a year. Notice the incoming group of career pilots is slimming.

Don't mean to sound cynical but there are a lot of old airplanes flying the line. And maybe its me but I think you better be a pretty smart individual to trouble shoot an airbus at 37000'.

C-ya

Oh PS the correct answer is that I am terribly underpaid!

SkyHawg

Maybe pay is decreasing because it's not decreasing, our demands as Americans have just gone up. Or it could also be that there are more factors involved than there were 30 years ago.

Today there are are more planes in use, more people flying, more costs per plane, more pilots needed, more pilots available, more training opportunities, a world economy, more competition, too much competition, too little competition, more regulations, insurance, more expectation, and public relations issues.

This is just a stab in the dark...

SkyHigh

Why would any company pay more when they have SkyHawq and many more like him who are prepared to throw their lives away over the job? You would never hear a pair of plumbers arguing over QOL. If something bothered them they would quit and find a better job. Pilots are dangling on the hook of addiction. It isn't a real profession anymore.

SkyHigh

hyflyt560

"...total pilot population is down 26% since 1980...", "Student pilot starts are down 61% since peaking in 1961...", "...60-65% of students never get their licenses..." Phil Boyer, AOPA President.

The crowd is smaller, not larger.

I have approximately an equal amount of flight time in small transport jet (B737, F-28) and corporate jet/turboprop (King Air, Citation). I would be much more successful in flying a Beech 18 vs. a B777, neither of which I have flown. Pilot wages in the airlines are down because the airline economy has be in the dumps.

SkyHawg

You got to be kidding. Then you must think like a plumber. I have no doubt that replying to you is quite pointless but it is sad that you feel it your duty to pursuade people to not get into aviation.

It is a fact that nothing can go up forever. At some point it must come down but it's a fact that nothing can go down forever. The industry will recover and those that dig in through the hard times will reap the rewards. Ask any real estate developer, stock broker, or investor: when the stock market or real estate market is booming, you missed the best opportunity. They were buying when the market was bad. Now they are making money hand over fist.

Also there are statistics that say the average person till change careers 2-3 times in their life and jobs (same profession) 7-12 times in that same period. As for me I get to keep doing what I do now while I am flying. Flying is a means to an end. My end game is retiring when I want. It will happen.

It's going to really s uck when the economy goes into another recession and the construction business dries up.

Well the aviation industry is doomed anyways. Those molecular transporters are really going take out the aviation industry...