Theory on pilot wage decrease
07-10-2006 | 12:34 PM
#112
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From: Corporate Pilot
Military
Originally Posted by Uncle Bose
Didn't early 707s have THREE guys sitting sideways? Radioman, navigator, FE. Christ, I need some air.
I think the older military planes needed extra bodies to handle the extra stuff.
SkyHigh
07-11-2006 | 08:18 PM
#113
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From: MD11 FO
Wow, I really don't know where to begin on this statement. How the hell do you compare flying a beach 18 (easy as taking a ******) airplane to flying an advanced aircraft such as a heavy jetliner. You must be smoking crack or your boyfriends d**k. I've been there flying the piece of crap turboprop and I have been there flying the heavy jet. By all means, your little Beach 18 is like flying a 172.....easy and simple, with no thought process involved. So before you start making such stupid comments, why don't you try being PIC on one of the big boys. Until then, shut up.
Originally Posted by duvie
I believe that one of the main reasons pilot wages are dropping is because of the relative ease involved in flying the newer aircraft. Our equipment is becoming so automated that our job doesn't take the skill it used to. Because airline flying is easier now than it ever has been, pilot positions are able to be filled by less intelligent, apt (insert whatever flattering adjective you want) individuals. Aviation is opening up to a larger crowd of people which increases the supply of pilots to companies. Increased supply of "qualified candidates" will decrease our wages.
This idea of supply and demand is a very basic concept and really can't be argued, so the issue at hand is the difficulty of flying modern aircraft. I don't think many pilots will refute that with all the research and engineering centered on human factors, safety and ergonomics aircraft have become much easier to operate. Compare flying a Beech 18 single pilot IFR to flying a 777 certified for CAT IIIc approaches. Apples and oranges? Sure. However, I think a lot more people could run checklists and monitor the 777 landing itself than could shoot a raw data approach in an aircraft that has more levers (oil bypass valves, cowl flaps, etc.) than very many since.
I think that the high level of automation and infrequency of serious emergencies has also lessened the value of a seasoned pilot. With all the standardization, training and information given to new hires the knowledge gap between the Captain and FO isn’t nearly as large as it once was.
I’m not saying that this trend is right or wrong, that we deserve more or less money. I’m just writing what I’ve observed and a possible explanation for why things are the way they are.
This idea of supply and demand is a very basic concept and really can't be argued, so the issue at hand is the difficulty of flying modern aircraft. I don't think many pilots will refute that with all the research and engineering centered on human factors, safety and ergonomics aircraft have become much easier to operate. Compare flying a Beech 18 single pilot IFR to flying a 777 certified for CAT IIIc approaches. Apples and oranges? Sure. However, I think a lot more people could run checklists and monitor the 777 landing itself than could shoot a raw data approach in an aircraft that has more levers (oil bypass valves, cowl flaps, etc.) than very many since.
I think that the high level of automation and infrequency of serious emergencies has also lessened the value of a seasoned pilot. With all the standardization, training and information given to new hires the knowledge gap between the Captain and FO isn’t nearly as large as it once was.
I’m not saying that this trend is right or wrong, that we deserve more or less money. I’m just writing what I’ve observed and a possible explanation for why things are the way they are.
07-12-2006 | 04:32 AM
#114
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From: WB Bunkie
4th and Goal you've proved my point perfectly. Judging by the way you express yourself and the fact that you fly heavy jets is proof that it can't take that much inteligence.
And, for the record, I do agree that comparing the beech 18 to a heavy is apples and oranges. I think a better comparison is the 707 flying from the 60's to modern heavy airliners.
And, for the record, I do agree that comparing the beech 18 to a heavy is apples and oranges. I think a better comparison is the 707 flying from the 60's to modern heavy airliners.
07-12-2006 | 04:56 AM
#115
Just Plane Stupid
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Captain
When everything is working and the weather is good...Anyone can fly anything...It's when the poop hits the fan and the weather is crap that shows the true ability of airmanship...What's that saying?..."Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree then the sea, it is terribly unforgiving for any incapacity, inability, and neglect....Something like that.
07-12-2006 | 05:39 AM
#116
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From: Retired 121 pilot
Originally Posted by HeavyDriver
When everything is working and the weather is good...Anyone can fly anything...It's when the poop hits the fan and the weather is crap that shows the true ability of airmanship...What's that saying?..."Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, but to an even greater degree then the sea, it is terribly unforgiving for any incapacity, inability, and neglect....Something like that.
07-12-2006 | 01:30 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by duvie
4th and Goal you've proved my point perfectly. Judging by the way you express yourself and the fact that you fly heavy jets is proof that it can't take that much inteligence.
07-12-2006 | 03:30 PM
#118
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From: Corporate Pilot
Experience?
Along with easier to fly planes it seems to me that regional airline employers are increasingly avoiding pilots with experience. My guess is that the young and inexperienced are easier to train and don't expect much.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
07-12-2006 | 07:27 PM
#119
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From: MD11 FO
Wow Mr. Uncle Bose....You must be one of those guys still "trying to make it" huh? If you believe what Duvie has to say, than you have no chance in hell. Good luck.
Originally Posted by Uncle Bose
Agreed. How embarrassing to be (involuntarily) represented by someone like that...
07-12-2006 | 09:11 PM
#120
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From: Corporate Pilot
The return of Browntail??
Originally Posted by 4th & Goal
Wow Mr. Uncle Bose....You must be one of those guys still "trying to make it" huh? If you believe what Duvie has to say, than you have no chance in hell. Good luck.
Could this be the most recent incarnation of Browntail?
SkyHigh
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