Mid 1960's, not 80's. In the 80's UAL had pilots on furlough.

 

I apologize if I have my dates wrong however I clearly remember reading an article perhaps in the early 90's about UAL working to establish direct hire cadet schools in response to a perceived future pilot shortage threat.

SkyHigh

 

Having started this post I find it quite interesting where it ended up.

I began with a relatively simple explanation about why I thought wages were decreasing. It turned into a place for pilots to tell everybody just how special they are and how difficult their jobs are.

HUMBLE?

Does humility often involve spending your time arguing on an online forum about how valueable you are?

 

You never know where these threads will go. We're lucky this thread hasn't changed to what we ate for dinner. Oh course all the Regional Pilots ate Ramen Noodles.

 

Was at UAL from 1965 through 2003. It was the 60's, and I was one of them.

They did not establish direct hire cadet schools - instead you went through all of the employment tests, including the ever-loving Stanine, and full flight physicals.

It is possible that a certified flight school may have been a UAL requirement, but if it was they were not involved with the school itself.

One could get hired literally with "zero-time". You then had one year to get your commercial - didn't even need an instrument ticket, to boot.

The shortage that UAL "saw on the horizon" never materialized.

TWA also had a program planned, but I do not think it came to pass.

 

My point is: lowtime/green/undertrained newbies don't make acceptable co-pilots. They may turn into acceptable co-pilots, but they don't start out that way. If you had been the Captain in a crew environment, you would have known that.

Is possible for a minimally qualified (in terms of hours) to become an FO, but it takes many more days than you would wish to believe. The European carriers that do the true ab-initio programs take a cadet and put him through four years of intense college studies along with his minimal flight training. A recent graduate from an American pilot mill is highly unlikely to have received the same level of training. There is no real comparison, with the possible exception of the top flight aero universities.

You need to get your story straight. Have you forgotten that you hold airline pilots with very little regard? (If you've forgotten your own words, see my signature. Those are your words) Now, you want to explain away your argument about low time FO's with the Captains competence. The Captain is also an airline pilot, and according to you, he has no ability. He's just a trained monkey so to speak.

SkyHigh, if you really want to help wannabees/newbies gain a better understanding of the industry, you might ought to give more respect to the profession. As it is, your message about the state of the job, which I sometimes tend to agree with, gets lost in your incessant streams of pilot bashing. No one is going to listen to someone who's message seems to come from jealousy and spite.

Have a great day,
SkyBolt

 

Bolt,

I know that you are one of my biggest fans therefore I enjoy taking the extra time to address your questions.

Airline Captains are included in the training process of new hires. Upon completion of formal training FO's are not expected to be perfect. I myself have witnessed several extremely low time individuals successfully reach the minimums and were allowed to pass into the ranks. I realise that they might have incurred extra supervision from the line Captains but it is a part of their job description no matter how much they might not like it. I figured that you would know this. I am sure that you had a few grumpy captains to deal with. (joke)

I hold airline pilots in what I consider to be a realistic and balanced regard. They are not supermen or hero's. They will not solve world hunger or cure cancer. Their skills are not rare or unique. The job does not require any unusual mental abilities or education. They operate a complex machine on such a regular frequency that it reduces the operators to human automatons. You must be in your 20's to still hold such fantasies so I will not go on.

I don't wish to bring down our nations poor pilots, but what does it serve to artificially inflate their value in the world? Young pilot wannabes are desperately searching for the myth of the gallant stalwart noble airline pilot which was gone decades ago if it really ever existed at all. What we are left with is much more humble and closer to a crane or ferry operator.

I can understand your need to see yourself as something more. What other option do you have? My question to you is are we really serving the youth by telling them bed time stories that really are not true?

SkyHigh

As always I am your biggest fan and enjoy our exchanges.

 

Ramen noodles are for freight dogs; regional pilots eat easy mac

 

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. What 'minimums', and what 'ranks'?

I might appreciate your strong opinions better if I knew your background. What are you self-employed at and how much PIC time do you have in the 757/737?

 

Sorry to let you down on this High, but I'm not a fan of anyone who cuts down my profession. You've written too many words like the ones in my signature to gain my reverence.

You hold airline pilots in "realistic and balanced" regard? Your words would tend to prove otherwise. Do you wish for me to search your past posts again to prove my point? You may hold pilots in high regard, but you've expressed your disregard for airline pilots too many times to attempt to get away with showing that the job is easy. The job may be easy, but that doesn't lead me to hold those who do the job with low regard.


Sorry to disappoint, but I'm passed 29.

BS, young pilots are looking for; money, fulfillment, job satisfaction, beer and sex. Nothings changed for the last fifty years.

Do you really believe that a pilot is on par with a crane operator?

I have no need to see myself as anything. My family is pleased with me and that's all that matters. In fact, I fly not because I need a ego trip, but because it's the best living I can earn for my family. , I earn a very decent paycheck and I'm proud of my profession. That's why I defend it against your attacks.