Are you serious ? Sure, we were shutting down 2 engines, and the automation just for fun, in a real MD-11

 

If you had to do that, I stand corrected.

 

I think the other guy thought that was dangerous and may have thought you meant the airplane, not a sim. I knew. I was making it clear by asking.

 

It's not uncommon in training...i.e. The simulator...That my company instructors shut down all 3 engines and we demonstrate energy management skills...It's fun and it has a training purpose.

 

When it comes to operating an airplane, not a heck of a lot.

But it does make for an argument that might be effective when the listener actually thinks that we are thinking about him when the stuff hits the fan.

 

That was quite an impressive line of storms going through NJ and NYC

 

duvie, wages are controlled by the level of compensation that the worker is willing to accept. In the past, pilots were not willing to work for nothing. Today, a lot of pilots, both military and civilian are willing to work for very low wages. As long as people are willing to work for low wages, employers will pay low wages. Do you buy your auto fuel from the most expensive Exxon station in town or the least expensive? It has nothing to do with how "easy" it is to fly a modern airliner.

I can't speak to your skills, but for me, learning a flybywire airliner was/is a hell of a lot harder than learning (and succeeding ) in a jurassic jet/boeing737OG. The newer aircraft may not need the level of physical skills that the old ones do, but they do require skills even if they are quite different. Ask any Boeing Captain about the skills needed to transition to a new airbus, it ain't as easy as you might think my friend.

You mention the ease of flying a modern airplane and I'll agree that a modern fully integrated, full glass, computer controlled airplane is easy to manage in NORMAL ops. When things start going to hades in hand basket, those simple systems become about as clear as mud.

You assert that airline flying now is "easier than it ever has been". You obviously don't understand the difference between flying the airplane, and performing the job of an airline pilot. There is a great deal of difference. I could train most any human adult of average intellegence to "fly" an airplane. Getting that same human through a type rating checkride and Captains OE in any part 25 aircraft would be a monumental task. As I said, there's much more to being an airline pilot than just driving an airplane.

I could most likely get into a 18 and fly a perfectly acceptable Cat 1 approach. Fail and engine and I could still do the approach. Fail a couple of generators and I could still fly the approach, etc, etc, Now put me into a 777 and allow me to use all of the automation and I'll fly a heck of a Cat3 Autoland. Start failing systems, and I doubt that I, or anyone who has not attended a full 777 training course, could complete the landing. Before you pop off and say "of course a trained pilot could deal with the failures", I'd like to remind you that I could do it in a Beech18 and I ain't never before set foot in one. Maybe I should say that there's a lot more involved in performing a Cat3autoland than just watching an airplane fly itself.

Uhh, I think that the high level of automation and the infrequency of serious emergencies has INCREASED the value of a seasoned pilot. I'd much rather be paired with a seasoned pilot when I happen upon the snares of life than I would a newhire FO. Wouldn't you?

The only creedence I'll give to your argument is that it is quite possible that airline managers are more willing to allow a green pilot into a automated RJ, than they were willing to put a green crew into an old Convair.

skybolt

 

Every one of those students going through the programs you mentioned fit into the statistics because they start out with Student Pilot certificates and work their way through Private, Commercial, etc.

Take a look at the FAA website. From 1990 to 2005 there is a drop in Commercial Pilots (FW) of 32,000 pilots. Conversely, there is an equal increase in ATPs. Overall, there is a drop of almost 93000 total pilots.

 

One reason the big schools are growing may be because many part 61 schools have closed. They closed because the cost of business is tremendous, and demand has been unpredictable.

The schools are the alternative, and they have siezed the opportunity. Affixing thier name with a college is a big money grab for the college. Colleges are all about the money anyway.

The success of the schools is a marketing success story.

 

The high cost of flight training and aircraft ownership is making it difficult for the average guy to become a pilot. I think that the statistics show that the hobby pilot is going extinct. Today over 93% of student starts have professional intentions. In the end we have fewer total pilots but a much higher percentage of career pilots. The raise in ATP numbers I feel supports this.

SkyHigh