20 Knots in the Dash 8-400

If landing with a 20 Knot tailwind there are a bunch of prerequisites and conditions which must be met.

 

DCA will not budge off of the Viz 19 unless they're forced to.MKE would rather put you on 25L with a crosswind right at the limit rather than 1L.I asked them why and I was told it was "So we can recover the Fedex airplanes" and I asked "All 4 of them ?" and got no reply.

 

LivingInMEM:

I do agree with you and I think they generally they use 10 knots as well. I'm sure they've heard that limitation thrown at them several times before.

But, the poster never said anything specific and was just curious if the poster could provide some details.

 

Controllers are not responsible for knowing aircraft limitations. With hundreds of different operators at major airports this would be impossible anyway. Yes, most large transport aircraft are probably limited to 10 kts on a dry uncontaminated rwy and most controllers are probably familiar with that. What about a rwy with poor braking - who here knows everyones tailwind limitation with poor/fair/nil rwy braking action reported.

What about MCOs - are we suppossed to tell ATC any MCOs we have so they can look up how it affects our tailwind limits. What about corporate, military, civilian, helicopters etc. What about low minimums guys recently checked out on a new aircraft that sometimes have lower minimums, what about with low RVRs.

ATCs job is to accurately report information - it is up to us as pilots to know our limitaions. As Clint Eastwood says "A mans got to know his limitations."

Scoop

 

Guys/gals cover your a$$.

AUS ATC may mean well, but you do not know who is watching here and out on the line. Follow your FOM, and move along. If you do not like what you see and set your parking brake, and ask. Be the leader, not the follower.

Yes, MDW is notorious for tailwind landings. If you do not like, ask for holding. I bet you are not in holding for long.

Fly the airplanes, do not let anyone do it for you.

Fly safe!!!

 

So, you are saying that ATC should consider what when they set the duty runway? 15 knot winds down the pipe and it's OK if they set the runway to the tailwind?

Let's think about this, ATC is responsible for setting the duty runway for aircraft to takeoff and land, but they are not to consider the performance limitations of those very same aircraft? That's like telling a traffic engineer to set the speed limit on an exit ramp with no consideration of how that speed will affect the cars that take the ramp.

How about ATC set the runway strictly on noise restrictions (disregarding those 15 knot winds) and have it be random who accepts it and who requests opposite direction - that would result in a good flow and some high fuel economy. As far as not being long until you get on the ground, if you are part of only 20% looking for opposite direction, you will be there for a while.

 

At my house, all of our aircraft have a general limitation of ten knots tailwind, takeoff or landing.

Our FOM calls out a few exceptions allowing a 15 knot tailwind for landing only, but only for specific aircraft at specific runways (all longer than 12,000'). These exceptions also require perfect conditions for runway and aircraft systems.

Note that these are operator (airline) limitations imposed on the pilots with the agreement of the FAA.

There is no specific aircraft manufacturers tailwind limitations, but the tailwind must always be fully accounted for in the takeoff and landing performance calculations, including tire speed limits and max brake energy calculations.

Joe

 

....and you still have to touchdown in the landing zone, a task which increases in difficulty the higher the tailwind rises.

 

No... I do not know what the crosswind component is for each aircraft or for each carrier.

I do know that MEM had a crosswind component chart that was used for runway selection, and those values were violated on a regular basis. If FDX wanted to depart south and land north -- the other airport users were essentially forced to go along with the selected configuration. To request a runway more aligned with the wind, would result in holding or diverting, and pressure was placed on the pilot to go along... get along.

Additionally, our local Standard Operating Procedures specified runway use and selection. These SOP's incorporated and referenced the above mentioned crosswind component chart. This crosswind component chart did NOT take wet runways into consideration. These SOP's were violated on a regular basis.

When the Converging Runway Display Aid (CRDA) was installed, our local SOP was altered to incorporate tailwind restrictions for all aircraft landing on RWY 27. This was also violated on a regular basis.

Consider this: Heavy Jets on approach to RWY 18L/18R with the wind 130/10. The Heavies have a ten knot headwind, and the Category Small or Large aircraft landing on RWY 27 had a 10+ knot tailwind. The Controller downstairs in the TRACON was tasked with "hitting the gap" on the ghost target, and "ties" often resulted. The Tower Controller solved these ties by asking the RWY 27 aircraft to make s-turns, reduce speed inside the marker, or by issuing go-around instructions and hoping (praying) to miss the RWY 18L/18R arrivals. The RWY 27 go-around aircraft was often instructed to "stay low" so as to avoid traffic on approach to land on RWY 18L/18R (an assignment below the Minimum Vectoring Altitude), and these go-around aircraft flew through the wake turbulence associated with the RWY 18L/18R arrival traffic.

No... I can't answer your question about excessive tailwind components with regards to aircraft performance or company SOP, and that is why I've asked for input. I can tell you how an excessive tailwind component affected me and the other Air Traffic Controllers at Memphis Tower/TRACON -- and I alleged to the United States Office of Special Counsel (OSC) and the Department of Transportation (DOT) Office of Inspector General (OIG) that these situations were unsafe.

Thanks,

AUS_ATC

 

Thats... wow.