DAL/NWA 2: Understanding/Using PWA
02-05-2010 | 12:25 PM
#31
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
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From: A-320A
Here's a question that appears to be in play out there on this last AE:
When does pay protection for getting converted out of seniority kick in?
It appears that there are many guys whose conversion is being pushed back past the summer, but with junior folks getting it done much earlier.
These are both for guys needing training, and no vacation waivers involved. There are more than a dozen examples.
I know of at least one case where the company told a fall converter that as long as he was slotted in seniority order in the category he came from, no pay protection. Whaaa?
This can't be right can it? It would seem to lend itself to all kinds of shenanigans.
8 <----- no dog to kick in this fight, but.....
When does pay protection for getting converted out of seniority kick in?
It appears that there are many guys whose conversion is being pushed back past the summer, but with junior folks getting it done much earlier.
These are both for guys needing training, and no vacation waivers involved. There are more than a dozen examples.
I know of at least one case where the company told a fall converter that as long as he was slotted in seniority order in the category he came from, no pay protection. Whaaa?
This can't be right can it? It would seem to lend itself to all kinds of shenanigans.
8 <----- no dog to kick in this fight, but.....
As it has been explained to me. You are converted in Seniority or Inverse Seniority order depending on the type of conversion, based on the seat you are leaving, not the seat your are converting too.
For example folks here in ATL that are on the 767 but senior to those on the 7ER are converting earlier but going to the same jet. How? As stated seniority off the equipment you are on not the jet you are going too.
02-16-2010 | 02:39 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
From: Permanently scarred
How about when you get done with a trip? Right after trip you check your schedule and they have nothing for you, so as I understand it you go to long call (if no trip or SC assigned). Do you now get 12hrs rest or something like this? When are you required to answer your phone again?
You don't get any specific rest (except for certain, limited circumstances), you simply go back on long call, with a 12 hour notice for any upcoming trip.
You only have to check your schedule (or turn on your phone for a message) every 9 hours - but then you might only be giving yourself 3 hours to report. You only have to acknowledge a trip 3 hours prior to report, 1 hour prior to SC or 6 hours after a rest period has started.
Many Delta pilots I know don't answer the phone, ever. They let it go to voice mail, then see what the call is about. You can acknowledge via the VRU or online.
You only have to check your schedule (or turn on your phone for a message) every 9 hours - but then you might only be giving yourself 3 hours to report. You only have to acknowledge a trip 3 hours prior to report, 1 hour prior to SC or 6 hours after a rest period has started.
Many Delta pilots I know don't answer the phone, ever. They let it go to voice mail, then see what the call is about. You can acknowledge via the VRU or online.
If no, why?
Follow on question: How long until I have to answer my phone or check my schedule after completing a trip (if I've checked it after 1500)?
02-16-2010 | 02:49 PM
#34
Happy to be here
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
First the 1500 is for your first day after an X day.
I assume that you need to check your schedule a block in plus 30 or duty out. They cannot add add on flying to your current trip once you have landed but they can add something for the next day until block out.
That is how I read it, and that is how I comply. I will answer my phone and check the VRU/DBMS until block in plus 30. After that I am released to rest.
Technically speaking they could have added it to your schedule prior to block in plus 30 you not have acknowledged it, and still have been legal for the SC. You would have gotten a call wondering why you had not acknowledged it about one hr prior to the start of the SC period.
Now if you waited until duty out and there was no assignment, you are released to rest. 1530+30 is 1600+ min required rest (9 hrs) =0100+10 is 1100 as the earliest for a SC if it was assigned after you were released to rest and assigned it the second you received your required rest.
I assume that you need to check your schedule a block in plus 30 or duty out. They cannot add add on flying to your current trip once you have landed but they can add something for the next day until block out.
That is how I read it, and that is how I comply. I will answer my phone and check the VRU/DBMS until block in plus 30. After that I am released to rest.
Technically speaking they could have added it to your schedule prior to block in plus 30 you not have acknowledged it, and still have been legal for the SC. You would have gotten a call wondering why you had not acknowledged it about one hr prior to the start of the SC period.
Now if you waited until duty out and there was no assignment, you are released to rest. 1530+30 is 1600+ min required rest (9 hrs) =0100+10 is 1100 as the earliest for a SC if it was assigned after you were released to rest and assigned it the second you received your required rest.
02-20-2010 | 07:38 PM
#36
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Ok guys,
Just looking for some clarification. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly.
Section 12 G. Break in Duty
4)When a domestic category pilot (or an international category pilot flying in domestic operations) is at his base, a period of at least nine hours (release to report) is required to constitute a break-in-duty.
So, I start SC and receive a turn. I finish the turn, check my schedule and see nothing on it. The time is 2000Z. I am now on rest for 9 hours, and LC will start at 0500Z, correct?
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
Just looking for some clarification. I want to make sure I'm interpreting this correctly.
Section 12 G. Break in Duty
4)When a domestic category pilot (or an international category pilot flying in domestic operations) is at his base, a period of at least nine hours (release to report) is required to constitute a break-in-duty.
So, I start SC and receive a turn. I finish the turn, check my schedule and see nothing on it. The time is 2000Z. I am now on rest for 9 hours, and LC will start at 0500Z, correct?
And to go further, the earliest I can be assigned another pattern on LC would be 1700Z? (Assuming I wasn't assigned another pattern at release that would terminate inside my max allowable duty)
Or, is the 9hrs rest + 3 hrs to commute = 12 hours LC? Does LC start right after I'm released??
Thanks in advance
Reference TWG Notepad 09-10 (Check Crew Awareness Bulletin 09-12 as well)
Long Call
A reserve pilot on an on-call day who is not assigned short call is automatically on long call.
Crew Scheduling will attempt to notify (via a phone call) a long call pilot of a rotation, short call period or rest period that has been placed on his schedule (see Required Schedule Checks below for exceptions to this). The pilot must acknowledge this assignment:
• no later than three hours prior to scheduled report for a rotation,
• no later than one hour prior to scheduled start of a short call period, or
• no later than six hours after the start of a rest period. (See Section 23 S.. g. and 6.b.)
He can acknowledge the assignment via DBMS, a phone call to Crew Scheduling, or via VRU. If a pilot acknowledges his assignment/award via DBMS or VRU, Crew Scheduling will not contact the pilot by phone.
A duty free period (free of responsibility for contact) will begin 12 hours prior to report for a rotation, and 10 hours prior to the start of a short call period.
As long as a pilot is contactable via at least one of the numbers listed in DBMS, then he will not have to check his schedule during routine long call days. As long as Crew Scheduling has not called one of those numbers, his 12-hour leash is always pushing out in front of the current time.
If a long call pilot desires to be out of contact entirely for periods of time (sleeping without interruption, golfing without a cell phone, etc.), then he must check his schedule (or messages) at least every nine hours. This ensures that he can acknowledge no later than three hours prior to any rotation, one hour prior to start of a short call or six hours after the start of a rest period that might have been assigned while he was out of contact.
A long call pilot will be released automatically at 1200 base time prior to a hard non-fly day (i.e., Golden X-day, MLOA, PD, APD, vacation). A long call pilot may be released at 1200 base time prior to a soft non-fly day (i.e., X-day, regular-line day off) with Crew Scheduling’s concurrence.
03-09-2010 | 07:29 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
First the 1500 is for your first day after an X day.
I assume that you need to check your schedule a block in plus 30 or duty out. They cannot add add on flying to your current trip once you have landed but they can add something for the next day until block out.
That is how I read it, and that is how I comply. I will answer my phone and check the VRU/DBMS until block in plus 30. After that I am released to rest.
Technically speaking they could have added it to your schedule prior to block in plus 30 you not have acknowledged it, and still have been legal for the SC. You would have gotten a call wondering why you had not acknowledged it about one hr prior to the start of the SC period.
Now if you waited until duty out and there was no assignment, you are released to rest. 1530+30 is 1600+ min required rest (9 hrs) =0100+10 is 1100 as the earliest for a SC if it was assigned after you were released to rest and assigned it the second you received your required rest.
I assume that you need to check your schedule a block in plus 30 or duty out. They cannot add add on flying to your current trip once you have landed but they can add something for the next day until block out.
That is how I read it, and that is how I comply. I will answer my phone and check the VRU/DBMS until block in plus 30. After that I am released to rest.
Technically speaking they could have added it to your schedule prior to block in plus 30 you not have acknowledged it, and still have been legal for the SC. You would have gotten a call wondering why you had not acknowledged it about one hr prior to the start of the SC period.
Now if you waited until duty out and there was no assignment, you are released to rest. 1530+30 is 1600+ min required rest (9 hrs) =0100+10 is 1100 as the earliest for a SC if it was assigned after you were released to rest and assigned it the second you received your required rest.
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