UAL letter to the ed. on RJ's......BRAVO!
03-08-2010, 08:40 AM
#51
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Round and round it goes, where it stops, NONBOY knows!!!!!!!
As opposed to getting lost, losing SA, failing to crosscheck, poor CRM, trying to climb with the speed brake/spoilers deployed, not arming them in the first place, continuing into windshear, failing to just divert in the first place as opposed to pressing a bad situation, etc.
Said this before, I'll say it again. Colgan was case of a substandard PIC and an inexperienced crew, and it showed. Direct cause-effect situation. And everybody should be rightfully outraged.
The other examples were experienced/well trained crews that killed people. There should be just as much (if not more) outrage.
Again, repetition. Experienced, well trained, high paid pilots can kill people just as fast as those without it. Sometimes it's simply luck that puts them the "live to tell about" side.
Originally Posted by satchip
ding ding ding! Or a FO retracting the flaps during said misapplied stall recovery.
Said this before, I'll say it again. Colgan was case of a substandard PIC and an inexperienced crew, and it showed. Direct cause-effect situation. And everybody should be rightfully outraged.
The other examples were experienced/well trained crews that killed people. There should be just as much (if not more) outrage.
Again, repetition. Experienced, well trained, high paid pilots can kill people just as fast as those without it. Sometimes it's simply luck that puts them the "live to tell about" side.
03-08-2010, 11:04 AM
#52
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Position: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
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Originally Posted by beeker
in reading this makes me feel that you think just putting a pack of chimps or groundhogs in the front would be just as effective as humans, i mean its just luck right.
yes well trained, highly paid pilots can kill people just as fast as those without it. Are you now going to tell us that an airline with all 1500hour captains and 300hour fo's is safer then an airline with all 10k hour captains and 5k hour fo's because the first airline hasn't had an accident yet? Next you going to tell me that Shaq is a better shooter then Reggie Miller because Shaq has a higher lifetime field goal pecentage? Statics only tell part of a story, use common sense.
yes well trained, highly paid pilots can kill people just as fast as those without it. Are you now going to tell us that an airline with all 1500hour captains and 300hour fo's is safer then an airline with all 10k hour captains and 5k hour fo's because the first airline hasn't had an accident yet? Next you going to tell me that Shaq is a better shooter then Reggie Miller because Shaq has a higher lifetime field goal pecentage? Statics only tell part of a story, use common sense.
Sorry, think you kinda missed the point.
03-08-2010, 12:53 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
So, what was your point? You're sure as heck making a great case for the RAA.
You've said it yourself, we ALL screw up, regardless of theexperience/skill/training level.
03-08-2010, 12:57 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by beeker
in reading this makes me feel that you think just putting a pack of chimps or groundhogs in the front would be just as effective as humans, i mean its just luck right.
Originally Posted by beeker
yes well trained, highly paid pilots can kill people just as fast as those without it. Are you now going to tell us that an airline with all 1500hour captains and 300hour fo's is safer then an airline with all 10k hour captains and 5k hour fo's because the first airline hasn't had an accident yet?
Originally Posted by beeker
Next you going to tell me that Shaq is a better shooter then Reggie Miller because Shaq has a higher lifetime field goal pecentage? Statics only tell part of a story, use common sense.
03-08-2010, 01:24 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by dojetdriver
Again, come on, you know what I'm talking about. You're smarter than that.
You've said it yourself, we ALL screw up, regardless of the experience/skill/training level.
You've said it yourself, we ALL screw up, regardless of the experience/skill/training level.
The constant rehashing of past incidents and accidents, as far as the discussion of scope goes, is irrelevant.
While I wholeheartedly agree that there are some major pitfalls and gaps in the regional sector of our industry, regional airline pilots have had a pretty decent aviation safety record over the past ten years considering that the regional sector has grown considerably under horrid management spewing some of the worst QOL standards, pay, and work rules in this industry's history.
03-08-2010, 02:03 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
I think this is a point we should acknowledge and move on to the actual issues regarding scope in relation to mainline versus regional delineation.
The constant rehashing of past incidents and accidents, as far as the discussion of scope goes, is irrelevant.
The constant rehashing of past incidents and accidents, as far as the discussion of scope goes, is irrelevant.
Originally Posted by DeadHead
While I wholeheartedly agree that there are some major pitfalls and gaps in the regional sector of our industry, regional airline pilots have had a pretty decent aviation safety record over the past ten years considering that the regional sector has grown considerably under horrid management spewing some of the worst QOL standards, pay, and work rules in this industry's history.
Originally Posted by beeker
So now your point is that the pilots at DAL, CAL and UA just are luckier.
Originally Posted by beeker
Well ok you agree with the rest of us, that people are in better hands with a major carrier do to the fact that the have better luck. I wonder how they determine the luckiness rating of someone to determine if they would fit at a major airline? I wonder what things i can do to advance my luck rating?
Originally Posted by beeker
I can see it now in dojetdriver's cockpit. "Hey there's a thunderstorm over the field, we are going to have to hold." then dojetdriver responds, "no let's go for it, i hit blackjack on my last 3 hands last night so am I really lucky right now.
03-08-2010, 02:38 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by beeker
I can see it now in dojetdriver's cockpit. "Hey there's a thunderstorm over the field, we are going to have to hold." then dojetdriver responds, "no let's go for it, i hit blackjack on my last 3 hands last night so am I really lucky right now.
03-08-2010, 03:27 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
And none of those "minimally qualified" F/Os at UAL was flying with a 3000 hour Captain with 5 checkride busts.
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