Mainline/Express - scope problem solved.

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03-19-2010, 01:37 PM

#11

acl65pilot

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Joined APC: Jun 2006

Position: A-320A

Posts: 18,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD80

Are you trying to tell me there is no politics in ALPA?

Pilot unions at the legacy carriers have been around for 50+ years and were mainly ex-military guys. They helped build the airlines and the ALPA policies.

The military has a good old boy club and will try to support each other.

Trust me I know. The simple fact is that it is political. The fact is that the amount of military pilots that will be apply will go down greatly going forward as most will be UAV programs.

03-19-2010, 01:53 PM

#12

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined APC: Mar 2008

Position: 767er Captain

Posts: 12,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle Pilot

And they keep them separate. Look at all the threads where legacy pilots blame the industry woes on regional pilots then go on to plan how they'll take back the flying from regional pilots. The war goes on.

I understand your feelings on this.. I really do. I think the "blame" of the regional pilots on the industry woes is really frustration that is exacted on the wrong people. I'm not saying it is right nor am I defending it, but I think the regional guys are unfortunately a convenient target for the frustration of the legacy pilots. That being said, I do hope that you realize if that flying is "taken back" by the legacy carriers, it means more jobs at the legacies and that translates to a better opportunity for you and other regional pilots. I truly believe that those legacy guys would much rather have you slinging gear here than doing it at whatever regional you might be flying for now.. Be patient.. it is a long process unfortunately.

03-19-2010, 01:54 PM

#13

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined APC: Mar 2008

Position: 767er Captain

Posts: 12,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD80

Are you trying to tell me there is no politics in ALPA?

Bwaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa Anybody that would say that should be drug tested immediately.

The rest of your argument is just silly though. Got any proof other than conjecture?

03-19-2010, 01:57 PM

#14

Boomer

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Joined APC: Jan 2008

Position: blueJet

Posts: 4,516

Quote:

Originally Posted by logic1

Let the main carrier contract out the express planes...they can take the expense and liability of owning the aircraft and they can make money for that. Make all the pilots mainline...

So when a plane goes down for a mechanical reason, the contract company gets sued... got it.

However, since "pilot error" will always be a contributing factor, mainline will still lose their shirt since they hire, train, and pay the pilots.

They need to distance themselves from the plane, the maintenance, and the pilots.

03-19-2010, 02:37 PM

#15

Seaslap8

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Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed

Mainline pilots did not agree directly to keep the pilot group separate but by agreeing with the management to outsource CRJ jobs to various regionals, the senior pilot groups at respective major airlines such as UAL, DAL, AA have in effect created a separate pilot roster.

Not really. Mainline did not "agree with management to outsource CRJ jobs"...the jobs and pilots were already in place at Comair when they started transitioning from props to jets...in my opinion ALPA missed the boat completely in not understanding the potential impact of the RJ and its been the dilemma of "the horse already out of the barn" problem....mainline has not agreed to outsource as much as they have been mostly ineffectual in stemming the loss of jobs through scope.

03-19-2010, 02:40 PM

#16

Seaslap8

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Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Trust me I know. The simple fact is that it is political. The fact is that the amount of military pilots that will be apply will go down greatly going forward as most will be UAV programs.

Proliferation of UAV programs notwithstanding, the supply of military pilots wanting to pursue this career is rapidly approaching zero.

03-19-2010, 02:42 PM

#17

Lighteningspeed

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Joined APC: Sep 2007

Position: G550 Captain

Posts: 1,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaslap8

Read the following article. A good article on the future of mainline/regional scope:

Will US mainline pilots cede more ground to regional airlines?

I don't agree with everything written but he does accurately portray what had transpired.

03-19-2010, 02:43 PM

#18

Jake Wheeler

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Joined APC: Dec 2008

Position: RJ driver

Posts: 320

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

I do hope that you realize if that flying is "taken back" by the legacy carriers, it means more jobs at the legacies and that translates to a better opportunity for you and other regional pilots.

The only way to do for the mainline pilots to take it back would be to do it cheaper. A new race to bottom. In the end, they'll lose because the regional pilots will always be able to do it for less because there will always be new pilots eager for jobs who'll do it for less. The only solution which would work is for the mainline pilots to bring their regional pilots into the group instead of competing with them. Once this is done, both groups will be fighting on the same side instead of against each other.

03-19-2010, 02:51 PM

#19

Seaslap8

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Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle Pilot

I do not think most legacy pilots blame the regional pilots themselves (well maybe some of those rjdc nubs)...but you are correct, the goal is to "take back" the flying, and increase the number and quality of mainline jobs.