Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major
Mainline/Express - scope problem solved. >

Mainline/Express - scope problem solved.

Search

Notices
Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Mainline/Express - scope problem solved.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-20-2010 | 09:15 AM
  #31  
:-)
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 1
Default

Actually, mainline pilots could take it all back in less than a week. All they have to do is grind the airline to a halt until management puts the planes back on the list. Management is NOT going to fold the airline over scope issues, at worst they will park the 50-76 seat jets and not fly them.

The problem with scope recapture is a numbers game. Take for example DAL if you put the 7000+ DCI pilots back on the list, they are going to want mainline pay. Money doesn't grow on trees, that money has to come from somewhere, and that's out of the senior pilot's paycheck.

FACT: This industry is exactly the way pilots want it, they show up to work, and vote yes on these substandard contracts. Most of NWA concessions were given back voluntarily before the bankruptcy of 2005.

You can say you're taking it back till you're blue in the face, it isn't going to change anything unless ACTION is taken.
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 09:48 AM
  #32  
TonyWilliams's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 0
From: Self employed
Default

Labor built today’s regional airline industry, but for all the wrong reasons and now the regional industry is too big. Airlines and labor have built a Ponzi scheme. The forecasts all point to aircraft in the 74- to 125-seat range for US domestic flying" said MIT International Center for Air Transportation Research Engineer, Bill Swelbar.
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 11:58 AM
  #33  
Jake Wheeler's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: RJ driver
Default

Originally Posted by Mesabah
Actually, mainline pilots could take it all back in less than a week. All they have to do is grind the airline to a halt until management puts the planes back on the list. Management is NOT going to fold the airline over scope issues, at worst they will park the 50-76 seat jets and not fly them.
Nice crack pipe dream. What are the chances such a thing would really happen?
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 01:21 PM
  #34  
Justdoinmyjob's Avatar
Looking for a laugh
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by Jake Wheeler
Nice crack pipe dream. What are the chances such a thing would really happen?

After the AWA/US Air merger debacle, who would have thought that two pilot groups could consummate a merger with relatively minor bloodletting and childish bickering?
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 01:46 PM
  #35  
acl65pilot's Avatar
Happy to be here
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
Default

Originally Posted by Jake Wheeler
Nice crack pipe dream. What are the chances such a thing would really happen?
Never say never. the perfect storm could happen.

It would be IMHO at least 10 years where those that were on the bottom and most effected by scope would be in a position to make the decisions.
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 02:28 PM
  #36  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 192
Default

Originally Posted by Jake Wheeler
Part of the problem is the idea that mainline pilots are superior to regional pilots. Several of our captains have thousands of hours more flying experience then many mainline first officers. Why would they give up their pay, seat and job security to be stapled behind someone with years less experience?

If you really want to merge both groups, then both groups will have to want to merge. Regional newhires will jump at the chance to be stapled, but the senior half of most pilot lists will not. They'll fight it. Without their cooperation, it will never happen.
If those currently at the merged regional had seat and domicile protection, I suspect most would support it.
Not having to worry about each upcoming contract between the regional and the mainline would be a nice bonus to any regional pilot, especially if he didn't have to worry about being bumped from his seat.
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 02:30 PM
  #37  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 192
Default

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
The big kicker is... how do we make it an incentive for management to even begin to want to fold in the outsourced flying?

Why would they want to give up their ultimate weapon against us all? The value of the whipsaw is virtually priceless.

I am absolutely 100% for taking back scope completely... Down to making the big concession on our end of just stapling the RJ drivers instead of having them go through screening in order to join. I have yet to have a practical idea on how to motivate management to give back the outsourcing.
Management would give back all the outsourcing if the mainline pilot group was willing to "buy it" back. Probably not likely that the mainline ALPA would pay the price, but it is doable.
Reply
Old 03-20-2010 | 05:58 PM
  #38  
acl65pilot's Avatar
Happy to be here
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
Default

The thought I have heard though and through is that the cost is too high to buy it back outright, but it makes sense to get to a point where it is advantageous for the company to fold it back it.

I know where they are going with that, and a huge first step is federal law mandating mainline-esque duty limits. It sends the cost of regional airlines though the roof. If the proposed legislation goes though it will not greatly effect the mainline carriers but the regionals will have a heck of a time with it.
Reply
Old 03-23-2010 | 04:32 AM
  #39  
Beagle Pilot's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: EMB-145
Default

Originally Posted by acl65pilot
a huge first step is federal law mandating mainline-esque duty limits. It sends the cost of regional airlines though the roof. If the proposed legislation goes though it will not greatly effect the mainline carriers but the regionals will have a heck of a time with it.
Which is exactly why it won't happen. First, there are enough complaints about "socialism" in our government without another law restricting capitalism through the re-introduction of airline regulation. Second, the increase on the cost of flying to the public would produce a public outcry. Unless federal law prevented an enterprising airline from providing cheaper ticket prices, capitalism would produce a solution for this public need.
Reply
Old 03-23-2010 | 04:58 AM
  #40  
acl65pilot's Avatar
Happy to be here
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,563
Likes: 0
From: A-320A
Default

Beagle, I am not talking about re-regulation. I am talking about duty day based upon report time and duty in the circadian window. (Rest Rules) That is a safety function and the public is fine when it appears to regulate safety.

I have always said re-regulate it or get your hands completely out of it. The government does a horrible job of picking winners and losers.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AAflyer
Major
101
03-27-2010 06:39 AM
Bucking Bar
Major
143
09-05-2009 04:39 PM
joel payne
Major
26
03-28-2009 07:12 PM
FrontSeat
Cargo
69
03-10-2009 07:49 AM
Dan64456
Hangar Talk
2
08-15-2008 09:40 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices