Just an idea for a resolution to the problem of scope.

The main carrier contracts other airlines to fly their routes....and this is reasonable, because the cost and liability of buying the aircraft and operating them..etc would be too much. The big problem...the pilots are all separate groups,separate training standards, seniority list (when mainline furloughs express pilots still flying)...etc. Let the main carrier contract out the express planes...they can take the expense and liability of owning the aircraft and they can make money for that. Make all the pilots mainline...that should be good for all. The main carrier gets the benefit of someone else taking the risk of owning the aircraft and the benefit of setting the training standards...the pilots get and increased pilot base....so when furlough time comes the ax falls on the new hire express pilots....as it should.

 

Do you think pilots came up with the idea to keep the groups separate?

 

No. But they did agree to it.

 

And they keep them separate. Look at all the threads where legacy pilots blame the industry woes on regional pilots then go on to plan how they'll take back the flying from regional pilots. The war goes on.

 

At the time all this was happening, pretty much, yes.
I have worked at two "mainline" carriers. At both the management pilots and the senior pilots I spoke with were against any integration of the lists as it would lead to "inferior" pilots already hired at the regional to be on our exalted seniority list.
Even though both regionals were very small, and we would be taking over the hiring process, it was something the mainline powers would not even consider.
When I speak of "powers" , i am including the influential pilot groups as well.
It is difficult to foresee long term consequences.
Perhaps now is the time? Perhaps now is also the time to consider(again) a national seniority list, if not by carrier, at least by union.
It would not be something that management would give away..it would be something that the current line holders at the majors would have to buy. Is it worth it to them? In the past they have seemed to say no. Maybe that now the results are more apparent, they will reconsider.

 

Mainline pilots did not agree directly to keep the pilot group separate but by agreeing with the management to outsource CRJ jobs to various regionals, the senior pilot groups at respective major airlines such as UAL, DAL, AA have in effect created a separate pilot roster.

Airline management are in a win win situation as they have successfully created an endless supply of C payrate pilots with substandard work rules. Fewer jobs at the mainline means lower overhead. This strategy has been advocated for the last 15 years or so by every Ivy League MBA programs.

 

I have always suggested that airlines like SKW own the jet and a DAL mainline pilot sit in the seat. Heck they could even be run on the mainline cert. If that is to much of stretch, we can fly across certificates.

 

YES....

Because the military pilots would have to go to the bottom of the RJ pilots list and they want/need to be able to bypass the "B scale" system develpoed by the legacy carrier unions.

 

MD80, I know this is not popular, but I really do not care about a pilot that does not pay association dues. It is our associations job to protect those that are members in good standing, not pilots that are not even active airline pilots.

That said, not getting the military candidate because of the 20 dollar an hr start will cause the airlines to raise their starting wage, and as a result the pay progression will be flatter the first few years.

 

Are you trying to tell me there is no politics in ALPA?

Pilot unions at the legacy carriers have been around for 50+ years and were mainly ex-military guys. They helped build the airlines and the ALPA policies.

The military has a good old boy club and will try to support each other.