What's the "Latest and Greatest" at UAL/CAL?
05-02-2010, 04:57 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Beagle Pilot
Not rolling over, but it's not going to be a cakewalk either. There are many realities to consider such as the evolution of the industry in a post-deregulation world, cabotage, survival of the airlines in an increasingly competitive environment coupled with a desire by employees to preserve pay and benefits.
My guess is it will go to an arbitrator who will "split the baby" in terms of comparing both scope clauses. It will be a little tighter than UAL's but not as tight as CAL's. IIRC, 40% of UAL's flying is outsourced while CAL's is less than 30%. A Solomon decision by an arbitrator would see it at around 35%.
My guess is it will go to an arbitrator who will "split the baby" in terms of comparing both scope clauses. It will be a little tighter than UAL's but not as tight as CAL's. IIRC, 40% of UAL's flying is outsourced while CAL's is less than 30%. A Solomon decision by an arbitrator would see it at around 35%.
Either the combined company gives the pilots back it's concessions or they get a really ****ed off labor group for their NEW and IMPROVED United.
Management has to pay to play and relaxing scope at all is a NO DEAL.
05-02-2010, 05:19 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by SUPERfluf
I'm guessing that it was sarcasm. No one who wants to acutally be able to retire invests in airline stocks. 
05-02-2010, 05:26 AM
#53
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Position: EMB-145
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Originally Posted by Zoomie
Who says UA/CAL joint contract ever makes it to an arbitrator.
Originally Posted by Zoomie
Either the combined company gives the pilots back it's concessions or they get a really ****ed off labor group for their NEW and IMPROVED United.
Please don't take offense, but both these comments cause me to wonder how old you are and how long you've been a union airline pilot. Pilot for either UAL or CAL? Are you a union volunteer? If not, you might want to become involved since the actions of your union will have a lifetime of impact on your career as a pilot at your airline.
05-02-2010, 05:27 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by TOGA LK
My .02, make sure your unions spend some time, actually a great deal of time ironing out a better contract. Demand that your MECs work together and explain to the company that the only way you'll sign off on a JCBA is with circa 2000 compensation and work rules. Oh, and no 70-seat RJs. If not, make sure the MEC convinces Tilton that it'll never be one airline any other way. This is where the DAL NWA merger was a total failure to the profession and how we ended up with 255 70 seat jets and 100 something 76 dual-class RJs. Sadly, but we owe most of our success to the US Air pilots for towing the line and tossing the BS flag. Their loss was our gain. Learn from both of us and 2010 going forward will be pivotal. Even APA may end up with a contract by 2020.
05-02-2010, 06:32 AM
#55
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Position: 737 CA
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Beagle Pilot
Not me, but that is the usual resolution when both sides of a negotiation refuse to budge off their position.
....
....
Released from mediation = self help.
The scope issue is contractually binding, they can't just take it to an arbitrator. The majority of CAL pilots and the CAL MEC were unwilling to budge on 50 seat jet scope during the current contract negotiations. There is no reason to believe that would not continue to a UAL/CAL joint collective bargaining agreement.
05-02-2010, 07:11 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by SUPERfluf
Mediation is what happens when the pilot group and mgmt can not agree to a contract. Arbitration rarely happens (I think Alaska may have agreed to arbitration sometime recently?) as both parties have to agree and the pilots don't usually go that route.
05-02-2010, 07:28 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by Beagle Pilot
True enough under the RLA rules of contract negotiations. I'm not up enough on how this will play with a merger.
05-02-2010, 08:17 AM
#58
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Well here's an interesting question. What if one pilot group doesn't want to play ball for what ever reason. The companies have already agreed on merger. Would either pilot group want self help at this point? It would be like stepping on a land mine. All of the tools are already in place to transfer flying from one pilot group to the other.
05-02-2010, 08:39 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by Captain Bligh
Well here's an interesting question. What if one pilot group doesn't want to play ball for what ever reason. The companies have already agreed on merger. Would either pilot group want self help at this point? It would be like stepping on a land mine. All of the tools are already in place to transfer flying from one pilot group to the other.
05-02-2010, 09:30 AM
#60
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by Captain Bligh
Well here's an interesting question. What if one pilot group doesn't want to play ball for what ever reason. The companies have already agreed on merger. Would either pilot group want self help at this point? It would be like stepping on a land mine. All of the tools are already in place to transfer flying from one pilot group to the other.
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