A reminder to all Spirit pilots...
05-23-2010, 09:29 PM
#61
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Head in the sand?
Originally Posted by AxlF16
All I can say is THANK GOD you were run out of the piloting profession. It's weak sisters like you that hold us all back... You sound just like the squishy, weak richards scabs that I've had to endure during my time as an airbus f/o. Let the real professional pilots do their jobs.
Skyhigh
05-23-2010, 09:38 PM
#62
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Strike don't strike.
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
Skyhigh: Oh so much to learn, grasshopper. Your argument defeats itself. That's hard to do, so congratulations. You lament that the Spirit pilots might as well Scab because there isn't anything left worth striking over. That is the whole POINT. They are threatening to go on strike not just for themselves, but for the larger profession, to try to KEEP something worth fighting for. They have the fortitude to stand up and say "enough is enough" while your management heros continue to bonus themselves to fatville. They are standing together in unity, which is exactly how things get done. Of COURSE there will be sacrifices that everyone must make. That's life. If you were ever in the military, you'd understand that. I'm assuming you will plod out the predictable "if you don't like it, quit" line next. Yawn. That doesn't work in a seniority based industry. Management knows that, and they manipulate it to the point where labor has only one defense: a strike.
I haven't had to go on strike yet - I was hired post 1985 at UAL. However, I promise you this on my mother's grave. If the day comes to strike, I will be on the picket line and will NOT enter the cockpit until my union tells me to do so. Not because they are threatening me, but because I honor and value my fellow United pilots, my fellow ALPA pilots, and my fellow professional pilots. Whatever the situation in my personal life, I will find a way through.
You denounce unions and strikes like they are the ultimate cause of all the airlines problems. If I fault the union for anything, its for NOT standing up higher and sooner. There HAS to be a line that we will not cross, despite managements attempt to force us to. What if they told me that I was to fly for $8 an hour? Would that be acceptable? Of course not. $9 an hour? $10? Where is the number that is acceptable to you? Well the Spirit pilots have found their number, and they have decided to defend it.
If you hate strikes so much, then perhaps you should blame the real culprit: The Railway Labor Act. Strikes are really the only negotiating leverage. The deck is totally stacked. Work to make negotiations more balanced, and you could probably eliminate the need for a strike threat.
Lastly, I really didn't come on here to bother feeling your wind. I came on here to make sure to encourage the Spirit pilots to stand shoulder to shoulder. As a professional, ALPA pilot, I salute all of you, and thank you for doing what is right for ALL of us. Best of luck. We will all be pulling for you.
Gladly paying my dues for your war chest.
I haven't had to go on strike yet - I was hired post 1985 at UAL. However, I promise you this on my mother's grave. If the day comes to strike, I will be on the picket line and will NOT enter the cockpit until my union tells me to do so. Not because they are threatening me, but because I honor and value my fellow United pilots, my fellow ALPA pilots, and my fellow professional pilots. Whatever the situation in my personal life, I will find a way through.
You denounce unions and strikes like they are the ultimate cause of all the airlines problems. If I fault the union for anything, its for NOT standing up higher and sooner. There HAS to be a line that we will not cross, despite managements attempt to force us to. What if they told me that I was to fly for $8 an hour? Would that be acceptable? Of course not. $9 an hour? $10? Where is the number that is acceptable to you? Well the Spirit pilots have found their number, and they have decided to defend it.
If you hate strikes so much, then perhaps you should blame the real culprit: The Railway Labor Act. Strikes are really the only negotiating leverage. The deck is totally stacked. Work to make negotiations more balanced, and you could probably eliminate the need for a strike threat.
Lastly, I really didn't come on here to bother feeling your wind. I came on here to make sure to encourage the Spirit pilots to stand shoulder to shoulder. As a professional, ALPA pilot, I salute all of you, and thank you for doing what is right for ALL of us. Best of luck. We will all be pulling for you.
Gladly paying my dues for your war chest.
Skyhigh
05-23-2010, 09:50 PM
#63
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
It is one thing to be optimistic and another to be foolish. At some point we should realize that there are no cookies left in the jar. The airlines are broke. The regionals and start ups are willing to do the job for less. Strike and most likely you will join the ranks of the laid off.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
In case you missed it, Spirit has been making record profits.
Want to try that again?
05-23-2010, 10:35 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
My apologies. I should have explained my position first without the attitude. Too many all-nighters, I guess. Hope you are well
05-23-2010, 10:58 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Good old fashioned scab talk. It takes me back to a time when things like this really mattered.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
I just remember when the job was worth all the fuss of scab intimidation and threats. I doubt that anyone would care anymore if someone was a scab or not. And sadly yes, playing the worlds smallest violin does pay better than the airlines. This thread makes me nostalgic for the way things use to be is all.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
(and no, small violin playing still does not stack up.)
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Union thuggery is a tradition. What is to stop every pilot from coming up with an excuse? "I have a pool payment to make this month." It seems to me that those who hold such a hard line in regards to strike violations must be single or have another source of income. If you have a family to think of you would think there would be more empathy.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
It seems to me that pilots who have been at the same company for many years begin to develop blinders and become totally unaware of what is going on in the world around them. Downturn? What downturn?? Strike !! I want a new motorcycle this summer.
Management however has daily reminders that they are in competition with airlines that pay their pilots much less.
Skyhigh
Management however has daily reminders that they are in competition with airlines that pay their pilots much less.
Skyhigh
List me the airlines that Spirit is in direct competition with that pay less. Their guys are well "under the bar" and the FO wages are criminal.
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Man I wish I had an airline to run... 
Why is it a joke? What if Spirit can not afford to pay more? Is life on the street going to be any better?
Skyhigh
Why is it a joke? What if Spirit can not afford to pay more? Is life on the street going to be any better?Skyhigh
Look Sky, you're obviously jaded by whatever this line of work did to you. You're helping nothing by projecting you're negativity on those fighting to make it better. I, and I think we all, understand the principal that you can't squeeze blood from a stone. But at some point, the cost of our skills is not negotiable. It's the cost of doing business. I don't mean this to sound callous, but I'm glad it's Spirit. They are the bottom in terms of pay and bennies among fairly big, scheduled carriers. To me that's a great place to start. I'm a legacy guy, and I hope that they trump our pay. That's where the change needed to start and I'll be sending in checks to help. If you've got something constructive to say, then say it. In my humble opinion, all we've gotten from you thus far from you is a feeble attempt to belittle those who continue to pursue a dream that either kicked your rump, or you gave up on. Hey, maybe you made a better life for yourself elsewhere. Great! God luv ya! You're not helping those of us who chose to stay on this path. No offense, but I really don't think guys are going to bail on their morals (strike or not strike), based on the musings of a guy who left the profession.
Originally Posted by Herkulesdrvr
I never thought it was a bad example if it meant the well being of your family. Look, all I'm saying is there are people in difficult positions. If your kid had cancer and you needed the money to keep that person alive what would you do? Gimme a break, if you put being called a scab over the well being of your family then I think your a coward, which is worse than a scab. People are so quick to judge someone that scabbed without knowing the facts. Have a heart.
Everybody has a heart. You need to stop implying that if the choice came down to your kid dying, or keeping your job, that anyone on here would choose the job. That's not what anyone is saying. As many have said, healthcare does not stop when you go on strike. There are many options. Going on strike with a relative in critical care does NOT equal a death sentence. I could go on about this, but trust me, no one is dying because you fought for a fair contract.
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
I like the previous post in regards to taking 'orders' from the commanding officer too. That would help clear up things to people from the military who are not use to the whole union/labor/management idea an make it an easier concept to grasp.
As for scabs and traitors being on the same level. Sorry - still not buying that one. Traitors have been known to get people killed and some damage can't even be counted. There is a difference there between the actions of a traitor and a scab who, though might be scum of the earth as many on this forum believe, acts on a poor BUSINESS decision and a poor personal decision.
Maybe it is my military upbringing - but there isn't much worst in this world than a traitor in my eyes - and I'm not saying that a scab might not be a traitor to their union or fellow pilots - but I'm talking about a certain type (#2) of traitor here:
Enough of the traitor talk. You guys can go back to your redefinition of a scab talk. Good luck Spirit!
USMCFLYR
[/size]
As for scabs and traitors being on the same level. Sorry - still not buying that one. Traitors have been known to get people killed and some damage can't even be counted. There is a difference there between the actions of a traitor and a scab who, though might be scum of the earth as many on this forum believe, acts on a poor BUSINESS decision and a poor personal decision.
Maybe it is my military upbringing - but there isn't much worst in this world than a traitor in my eyes - and I'm not saying that a scab might not be a traitor to their union or fellow pilots - but I'm talking about a certain type (#2) of traitor here:
Enough of the traitor talk. You guys can go back to your redefinition of a scab talk. Good luck Spirit!
USMCFLYR
[/size]
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
It is one thing to be optimistic and another to be foolish. At some point we should realize that there are no cookies left in the jar. The airlines are broke. The regionals and start ups are willing to do the job for less. Strike and most likely you will join the ranks of the laid off.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
God speed boys (and girls). All of us are counting on, and supporting you. (my money has been sent, Sky, before you ask)
Last edited by Jay5150; 05-24-2010 at 08:35 AM. Reason: grammar
05-24-2010, 02:52 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
It is one thing to be optimistic and another to be foolish. At some point we should realize that there are no cookies left in the jar. The airlines are broke. The regionals and start ups are willing to do the job for less. Strike and most likely you will join the ranks of the laid off.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
This industry isn't kind, friendly, or understanding to pilots, and clearly it never worked out for you. The thing is I don't think it ever would have worked out for you because of the horrid attitude you convey to others.
Some people move on and make peace with their lives, and others obsess in watching others pilots walk down the same painful, penniless furloughed/lay off path of unemployment that they once walked down.
The thing is, if this industry was so broke and out of money, then it wouldn't exist, period. The money is being made, and the revenue stream is sustainable for a responsibly managed company. It is our responsibilities as pilots to support a management team that is looking out for the well being airline industry.
05-24-2010, 07:12 AM
#68
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Broke
Originally Posted by DeadHead
Personally, I think you take comfort in other pilots' misfortunes. If for some reason this strike leads to a mass layoff and/or the company closing down I can guarantee you will be the first person to say "I told you so".
This industry isn't kind, friendly, or understanding to pilots, and clearly it never worked out for you. The thing is I don't think it ever would have worked out for you because of the horrid attitude you convey to others.
Some people move on and make peace with their lives, and others obsess in watching others pilots walk down the same painful, penniless furloughed/lay off path of unemployment that they once walked down.
The thing is, if this industry was so broke and out of money, then it wouldn't exist, period. The money is being made, and the revenue stream is sustainable for a responsibly managed company. It is our responsibilities as pilots to support a management team that is looking out for the well being airline industry.
This industry isn't kind, friendly, or understanding to pilots, and clearly it never worked out for you. The thing is I don't think it ever would have worked out for you because of the horrid attitude you convey to others.
Some people move on and make peace with their lives, and others obsess in watching others pilots walk down the same painful, penniless furloughed/lay off path of unemployment that they once walked down.
The thing is, if this industry was so broke and out of money, then it wouldn't exist, period. The money is being made, and the revenue stream is sustainable for a responsibly managed company. It is our responsibilities as pilots to support a management team that is looking out for the well being airline industry.
I do not believe that any airline is very well off and most probably have an eye to the future and are trying to position themselves for the lean years ahead. I am not supporting a strike or suggesting that others scab. What I am saying is that my airline had pilots that claimed to be able to read the tea leaves and told us that the company was rich and that we should organize and strike when management cut our wages by 15%.
They were wrong. The move to cut wages and benefits was an attempt to save the company. First the pilots want more then it is the flight attendants, mechanics, rampers ect... I know what it is like to watch a company shut down and to have your dreams die. Maybe Spirit pilots will get a contract but there will be consequences. The company will not be able to grow or to pay down debt as fast. It will weaken its ability to compete. Over time a temporary victory could lead to ultimate downfall.
As a pilot I saw management as the evil that prevented me from living the life I deserved. Now as a business owner I can see that the airlines have little to prevent them from sinking to the lowest common denominator. They all fly the same planes on the same routes and with mostly the same quality. Customers can jump online and get a quick price quote from several airlines. The airlines have to sell their product for less than the competition. The only way to get ahead is to have the cheapest costs.
I do not believe that Spirit is doing very well. Their progression has been sluggish they have pilots on furlough. They need to grow. They need to compete. A strike at this point is probably not a good idea. My advice is to take the pay cut and to be thankful that you still have a job.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 05-24-2010 at 07:35 AM.
05-24-2010, 08:11 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The airline industry is very competitive and has just gone through the worst downturn since the great depression. Most are loosing money year after year. They are charging for food, carry ons and to use the bathroom. Margins are razor thin. The slightest change could spell disaster.
I do not believe that any airline is very well off and most probably have an eye to the future and are trying to position themselves for the lean years ahead. I am not supporting a strike or suggesting that others scab. What I am saying is that my airline had pilots that claimed to be able to read the tea leaves and told us that the company was rich and that we should organize and strike when management cut our wages by 15%.
They were wrong. The move to cut wages and benefits was an attempt to save the company. First the pilots want more then it is the flight attendants, mechanics, rampers ect... I know what it is like to watch a company shut down and to have your dreams die. Maybe Spirit pilots will get a contract but there will be consequences. The company will not be able to grow or to pay down debt as fast. It will weaken its ability to compete. Over time a temporary victory could lead to ultimate downfall.
As a pilot I saw management as the evil that prevented me from living the life I deserved. Now as a business owner I can see that the airlines have little to prevent them from sinking to the lowest common denominator. They all fly the same planes on the same routes and with mostly the same quality. Customers can jump online and get a quick price quote from several airlines. The airlines have to sell their product for less than the competition. The only way to get ahead is to have the cheapest costs.
I do not believe that Spirit is doing very well. Their progression has been sluggish they have pilots on furlough. They need to grow. They need to compete. A strike at this point is probably not a good idea. My advice is to take the pay cut and to be thankful that you still have a job.
Skyhigh
I do not believe that any airline is very well off and most probably have an eye to the future and are trying to position themselves for the lean years ahead. I am not supporting a strike or suggesting that others scab. What I am saying is that my airline had pilots that claimed to be able to read the tea leaves and told us that the company was rich and that we should organize and strike when management cut our wages by 15%.
They were wrong. The move to cut wages and benefits was an attempt to save the company. First the pilots want more then it is the flight attendants, mechanics, rampers ect... I know what it is like to watch a company shut down and to have your dreams die. Maybe Spirit pilots will get a contract but there will be consequences. The company will not be able to grow or to pay down debt as fast. It will weaken its ability to compete. Over time a temporary victory could lead to ultimate downfall.
As a pilot I saw management as the evil that prevented me from living the life I deserved. Now as a business owner I can see that the airlines have little to prevent them from sinking to the lowest common denominator. They all fly the same planes on the same routes and with mostly the same quality. Customers can jump online and get a quick price quote from several airlines. The airlines have to sell their product for less than the competition. The only way to get ahead is to have the cheapest costs.
I do not believe that Spirit is doing very well. Their progression has been sluggish they have pilots on furlough. They need to grow. They need to compete. A strike at this point is probably not a good idea. My advice is to take the pay cut and to be thankful that you still have a job.
Skyhigh
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