Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 873627)

Now THAT makes me laugh. Thank you sir. You in Narita?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 873635)

I cam hear him now... "Moose.. Rocko... help the judge find his checkbook" :D

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873582)

What I am saying is that we have unionized labor at National. If we are stating that their pay is to high and the best solution is to dump them it makes us no better than a company that opts to outsource its jobs to a lower option.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873582)

What I am saying is that we have unionized labor at National. If we are stating that their pay is to high and the best solution is to dump them it makes us no better than a company that opts to outsource its jobs to a lower option. .

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 873604)

I wonder what does a future Delta Pilots Association (DPA) do with the leaders we have elected in the past that is different than what DALPA has done with the leaders we had? My point is that I believe National ALPA and ALPA's problems are people and unless I'm missing something, DPA would have elected the same people they did for DALPA and the results would have largely been the same.

I mean sure, it is obvious that National ALPA has a huge conflict of interest with the RJ drain. But, isn't it up the the individual MEC's to determine the course and priorities of their negotiations when the time comes. Isn't CAL/UAL doing that exact thing right now?

Yes, national ALPA dropped the ball on pensions and age 65 and a few other things. But, we (and I use that word loosely) voted everything else in ourselves and our MEC's allowed it. I think we are our own worst enemy, not some organization. We allow our elections to be focused on popularity contests, not issues. We worry that the more "radical" candidates may be too radical and bring the company down. We don't participate. And when we try to participate, we are shot down or ignored because we don't "know the right people."

While there are more than a few instances where DALPA did (or, didn't do something) that have occurred over the past few years that have made me more than a little mad, it is important for DPA to explain how they would behave differently if they were in place with the same elected leaders that DALPA had at the time.* If they can't, I don't see why their efforts aren't made towards putting different people in the right positions.


New K

* What would DPA have done to save our pensions back in bankruptcy?
* What would DPA have done to keep Age 65 legislation from passing?
* What does DPA do that UAL/CAL MEC's aren't doing now to get rid of rj's?
* What does DPA do to mend the new rest rule proposal?

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 873635)

Yeah... he would be better at the diplomatic thingy.. you and I could just break legs.

I cam hear him now... "Moose.. Rocko... help the judge find his checkbook" :D

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 873649)

Wow.

18 pages of excellent discussion and over 5000 views in barely 12 hours.

It appears this DPA is something a lot of people want to learn about and debate.

Game on. May the best union win.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873331)

1) National Signs our contract, they do not negotiate it. The response is BS they do they send lawyers. They do, but we also employ our own that work for DALPA every day and sit in our offices. We negotiate what we want and can reign in scope with no fear of National telling us we cannot. They get a cut of the money if we fly it or if a regional represented by ALPA flies it. It is of no consequence to them. .

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873331)

3) The local Units of ALPA do your bidding as a Delta pilot. The same will hold true with DPA. What that means is that once again, you need reps that carry your desires to the MEC and to the negotiating table. It means that nothing will change in the way we develop and negotiate our next contract. It requires one less signature which is no more than just a rubber stamp. (No National president would ever refuse to sign a mainline contract for no other reason that self preservation)

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873331)

In this world we are seeing more and more Joint Ventures and Cross Ocean agreements. Here at DALPA/DAL we have seen some very binding agreements with the AF/KLM deal and the agreement among all pilots of the the Sky Team Alliance. We have not seen the fruits of this effort since we have been in a recession but we will. This work is good work. It would have not been possible without ALPA and IFALPA. It by nature brought us and AF to the table to start a dialogue. Going it alone we may see this sort of thing, but it would not be as easy as it has been. It is like trying to get a visa to a country we do not have Diplomatic Relations to. Same principle.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 873331)

These principles also allow many things to "happen" as we move forward. It is my belief that some day Foreign Ownership limits will be done away with and Cabatoge will be a thing of the past. What do you think that means for a pilot group that has embraced isolationism? My gut and view of history determines it will not be a positive one. That is why I say, keep the seat at the table but fix the issues behind the seat.