DAWGS the problem with your little quip is that you are going to go buy a shiny new boat that was the first boat built by some guy who built the boat because he felt like it. He has not experience building boats. When you buy it, it will be yours, no sea trials, not engine runs. Heck you will not even know how it will sail or the drag it will have. It is not off the shelf technology by a long shot.Why? Because it is the first boat the guy has tried to build. It may look all sleek and new, but who knows if it will leak, and who cares. It is not like it will have a money back guarantee if you do not like the way it runs. The second you write that check it is yours and the money involved to fix it will be yours. Heck it may have fatal flaws that can never be fixed.



Oh and Carl, ALPA is not going to farm out its services to a group of pilots unless they can think that showing them what their services can do will lead them to joining ALPA. DAL pilots leaving ALPA will not be high on their list to help.

 

BOAT is an acronym for Break Out Another Thousand. At least a new one won't have all the ridiculous maintenance costs.




riiiiiiiiiiiiight. National alpa is a big hungry blob. If suddenly faced with the loss of the revenue stream we are talking about, they would be DESPERATE to sell their services... to anybody. Because they have huge payrolls there to cover, and they ain't gonna do it on regional airline dues...

 

Not a quip just a good analogy of how I and many other sailors feel. Sea, It's not just a guy (one), it's many who are much more capable than you think. Me, I think its time to "Sail On." Let Lionel sooth your land loving heart.

YouTube - Lionel Richie - Sail On

 

Delta pilots need a new Union NOW..!!! We can't afford to waste time. Our futures depend on it. I have no confidence whatsoever in ALPA negociating our next contract, especially with L.M. as the head of ALPO National.... We are over 13,000 strong and can then form a Professional Pilots Consorsium of sorts with the other self-represented airlines to work together on contracts, saftey and scheduling.... You know, all those things ALPA has let pass us by the past few years.... I urge ALL Delta Pilots to go to the DeltaPilotsAssociation.org website on read their mission statement. It really makes you go Uhmmm....... Now is the time for change, NO More empty promises... It's time for Professional Negociators with "Pilot Consultants" for our next contract.... Have you seen what Non-ALPA pilot carriers are making for wages vs. ALPA carriers.... SWA 10 yr F/O $128 hr... 12 yr CA $198 hr for a B737..... NARROW BODY.....Need I say more.... These are only my personal opinions based on over 15 yrs with commercial carriers....

 

I posted this over in the "Latest and Greatest" thread. But I think it fits in well with what you are saying:

Well that wouldn't be ideal. Hopefully, we'll make a decision soon, one way or the other, and it won't be "right before" Section 6. In any case, I would rather have a union focused on restoration fighting for me than a union that has already essentially conceded defeat. At this point, it seems better to me (especially considering the urgency of Section 6 around the corner) to replace the dysfunctional union with a new one rather than trying to fix something that is just too far gone. But hopefully we can do it the hard way if we have to. Either way, I don't think any of us should give up.

 

Not speaking on a pedestal here, so if anyone see a flaw in my logic please call it out.

That being said, the way I understand it is that our Pilot Group has to approve ANY contract that gets kicked back to us from the ALPA Negotiators. If the Negotiators come back to the pilot group with a contract that doesn't have any teeth couldn't we then at that point begin the de-certification process.
Obviously I realize this will end up taking more time in the process, any ideas how long to de-certify ALPA and negotiate a new contract???

The way I see it is the quickest route to an industry leading contract would be if, and only if, ALPA Negotiators get a contract that gains some serious traction with the pilot group. I am honestly quite skeptical, though I could be wrong, that ALPA will offer up such a contract.
I think there is alot of fear that people with vote for a bare bones increase to what we have now, but personally I can't think of one pilot who has told me that this next contract wasn't going to be a big one. I think the expectations are high and I doubt table scraps will go over well with the group.
Lastly, is it detrimental, in anyway, to have the de-certification process going on during lingering contract negotiations. I would think it would be, but is it possible to get the de-certification wheels rolling then pull the trigger on it immediately with a vote if ALPA kicks back a sub-par contract?

I ask these questions because I think as important as the ALPA vs. DPA argument is, the strategy we use leading up to this next contract is equally as important, if not more.

 

those are old rates...SWA is $212/hr 12 yr CA an $147/hr for FO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. This should be a new sticker on each of our bags! Most guys I fly with have no IDEA!!!!

 

I'm going to keep saying this until we vote on our contract. Those hourly rates you post are nice....much better than ours. But, they make all the quan on trip rigs/touching trip vacation/trip splitting/general solid contract/etc. We need to look at hourly rates last.

With the right contractual changes, I would almost vote yes to no hourly increase. See my point? It's all about the W-2.

Sit and have a beer with a SWA guy.

 

Good point....just carry SWAPA's contract to DAL management, lay it in their laps! Not a penny or workrule less! Ratio the a/c with their 737 rate, and you are mostly done! After all, they are a low cost carrier!

 

No way would I vote yes without substantial raises. We should see rates that are a few percentage points higher than SWA rates for comparable equipment. We should also see better work rules, a vacation and training day worth what a minimum day is, and a big bump in our 401K. We as Delta pilots should not allow anything less!