Delta Pilots Association
12-20-2010, 06:44 AM
#3601
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Section 1.A defines who the bargaining agent is. it's unambiguous. What is a little ambiguous is the way the NMB views company actions during an organizing drive, or an election. Delta has earned re-voting for their actions during union elections. But this is not a union election. it's an organizing drive.
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
12-20-2010, 06:53 AM
#3603
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by Karnak
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
Looks like somebody has a source problem.
btw, it's nice to see you get Spacklered on the peripheral issues you brought up...as we all anxiously await answers to the substantive points. You got that going for ya!
12-20-2010, 06:58 AM
#3604
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
DPA timeline
May 1st, 2010 – The association was established.
Prior to 5% return of Cards - Volunteers selected to form Financial Oversight Committee (FOC), Technology Committee and Communication Committee. The Communication Committee will consist of a Captain and First Officer representative at each pilot base.
Nearly eight months later, most bases have no communications representatives. None of the bases have both a Captain and First Officer communications representative that I can tell.
Who's on the Financial Oversight Committee?
Who's on the Technology Committee?
Initially, a volunteer Board of Directors and a Financial Oversight Committee will be formed consisting of volunteers from both pre-merger groups. These volunteers will set up the books and complete the legal requirements for incorporation and accepting donations. All monies received, spent and balances are posted online for all to see excluding individual names.
Has this been done yet?
Where's the transparency, where's the structure?
8 months of organizing, where's the budget?
Or is that a DPA secret?
At 20% return of Cards – Draft constitution produced to web. Comments received
No constitution and by-laws (apparently after 8 months they still can't get 20% of the cards in, since they promised a draft of the C&BLs at 20%)
Obtaining the required amount of Authorization Cards from the total pilot group of 50% plus one by the end of this year will allow for a short validation period and the vote to occur. It is entirely possible to see DPA representing all Delta Pilots by early next summer.
After 8 months they haven't accomplished the most rudimentary of goals, yet they want to represent 12,000 pilots by early next summer, 5 months from now. Who have they interviewed to represent the Delta pilots. DALPA has at least 1/2 dozen attorneys and paralegals to cover representation for 12,000 pilots. Who does DPA have waiting in the wings? Where's the transparency?
Aeromedical services are currently outsourced to a company called Aviation Medicine Advisory Service which you can read about at www.aviationmedicine.com. This company could easily be hired by DPA to provide services with no break in coverage to our pilots. DPA will ensure a seamless transition of all of the critical services our group requires.
Has DPA contacted Aviation Medicine Advisory Services and secured their services? Early summer is fast approaching, 12,000 Delta pilots will need access to these services.
May 1st, 2010 – The association was established.
Prior to 5% return of Cards - Volunteers selected to form Financial Oversight Committee (FOC), Technology Committee and Communication Committee. The Communication Committee will consist of a Captain and First Officer representative at each pilot base.
Nearly eight months later, most bases have no communications representatives. None of the bases have both a Captain and First Officer communications representative that I can tell.
Who's on the Financial Oversight Committee?
Who's on the Technology Committee?
Initially, a volunteer Board of Directors and a Financial Oversight Committee will be formed consisting of volunteers from both pre-merger groups. These volunteers will set up the books and complete the legal requirements for incorporation and accepting donations. All monies received, spent and balances are posted online for all to see excluding individual names.
Has this been done yet?
Where's the transparency, where's the structure?
8 months of organizing, where's the budget?
Or is that a DPA secret?
At 20% return of Cards – Draft constitution produced to web. Comments received
No constitution and by-laws (apparently after 8 months they still can't get 20% of the cards in, since they promised a draft of the C&BLs at 20%)
Obtaining the required amount of Authorization Cards from the total pilot group of 50% plus one by the end of this year will allow for a short validation period and the vote to occur. It is entirely possible to see DPA representing all Delta Pilots by early next summer.
After 8 months they haven't accomplished the most rudimentary of goals, yet they want to represent 12,000 pilots by early next summer, 5 months from now. Who have they interviewed to represent the Delta pilots. DALPA has at least 1/2 dozen attorneys and paralegals to cover representation for 12,000 pilots. Who does DPA have waiting in the wings? Where's the transparency?
Aeromedical services are currently outsourced to a company called Aviation Medicine Advisory Service which you can read about at www.aviationmedicine.com. This company could easily be hired by DPA to provide services with no break in coverage to our pilots. DPA will ensure a seamless transition of all of the critical services our group requires.
Has DPA contacted Aviation Medicine Advisory Services and secured their services? Early summer is fast approaching, 12,000 Delta pilots will need access to these services.
12-20-2010, 07:35 AM
#3606
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Lots of subtle and unsubtle LM bashing here in his capacity as the head of the MEC. Since he's the leader of the effort, he and his decisions/actions/statements are fair game.
Is it too soon to start putting the DPA leadership under the same microscope? Would it be fair to post TC's decisions/actions/statements here, and scrutinize them?
Is it too soon to start putting the DPA leadership under the same microscope? Would it be fair to post TC's decisions/actions/statements here, and scrutinize them?
12-20-2010, 07:44 AM
#3607
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
Most pilots do not buy the argument that we must save management from foolishly paying us too much. Restraining our wages is their job, and they collect huge salaries for doing exactly that. Frank Borman tried to blame labor for his own cave-in by whining "we had a gun to our head", but nobody bought that excuse then either.
What a brilliant plan! Why Delta's Board fired such a genius is baffling.
What a brilliant plan! Why Delta's Board fired such a genius is baffling.
All I can say is.. it worked...
12-20-2010, 08:00 AM
#3608
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
Originally Posted by Karnak
Section 1.A defines who the bargaining agent is. it's unambiguous. What is a little ambiguous is the way the NMB views company actions during an organizing drive, or an election. Delta has earned re-voting for their actions during union elections. But this is not a union election. it's an organizing drive.
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
But you agreed to shiznit's statement of: The company cannot legally allow any other prospective bargaining agent do anything on property or they would be in violation of the very first first thing in the contract.
So which is it, they cannot legally allow them on property or they don't have to. Being as legal minded as you are I am sure you know the answer....
Also please do not allow your emotions to dictate your response.
12-20-2010, 08:12 AM
#3609
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Karnak
Lots of subtle and unsubtle LM bashing here in his capacity as the head of the MEC. Since he's the leader of the effort, he and his decisions/actions/statements are fair game.
Is it too soon to start putting the DPA leadership under the same microscope? Would it be fair to post TC's decisions/actions/statements here, and scrutinize them?
Is it too soon to start putting the DPA leadership under the same microscope? Would it be fair to post TC's decisions/actions/statements here, and scrutinize them?
12-20-2010, 08:27 AM
#3610
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Ya'll are really amazing. The organization is barely breathing, and here you are criticizing the effort like it is some vile personal affront. What is YOUR real fear here? Is it that you are so afraid of anything that doesn't fit into your comfort zone that it is automatically bad? Or are you somehow hardwired into the machine and are receiving some sort of kickbacks? Why the big fear here to at least foster the debate? I think maybe some of you are afraid that once the layers of alpa national are peeled back, you won't like what you see. I have only seen the first layer, and I already don't like it. $400,000+. That's all I needed to see....
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