Regardless of hacking or fake emails, USAPA is getting rid of Seham. Just like many others did.

 

Being rude to co-workers does nothing to further DPA's chance at certification.

 

It might be. But how will we know unless we get to read the transcript of that meeting? How will we know whether those meetings included demands by ALPA national that our Scope negotiations not damage the regionals?

And now, the ALPA president has the power to get involved AFTER "meet and confer" if he deems the results unsatisfactory. How will we know where Moak stands on OUR scope proposal? Transcripts?

Hope isn't a strategy. Trust but verify is. Trust = transcripts for me to read.

Carl

 

The USAPA situation aside, you keep refering to other unions firing the Seham firm as opposed to their legal work being completed. Do you have any evidence of other unions actually firing the Seham firm?

Carl

 

This is the first Section 6 where the "meet and confer" mandated process will be utilized. How can you say the above?

That is not what DPA is saying. What DPA is saying is that because we are members of ALPA, we are forced into a multi-step "meet and confer" non-transparent process to formulate our own opener regarding the upcoming Section 6. If we weren't affiliated with ALPA, we would have to meet with nobody except other Delta pilots in the formulation of our Scope opener. That's simply a fact.

DPA has never said anything to the contrary that I've ever read.

Carl

 

Nobody is scapegoating the RJ guys. ALPA's structure is the very definition of conflict of interest. Our bargaining agent is the exact same bargaining agent of our direct competitors who want to grow their operations, just like we want to grow ours. The court mandated process to manage that conflict of interest (meet and confer) is about to be tested in our upcoming Section 6. It looks as though the process will be completely opaque to us members. None of this would be mandated for the pilots of Delta if we were an in-house union.

Carl

 

Maybe this doesn't belong here in the DPA thread, but since we've been talking about it here goes. Meet and confer has always seemed like a toothless exercise, where agreement can be reached, or not. We as pilots tend to criticize that language as toothless when it's in our contract, but now some are saying that it is powerful language when it's in some ALPA negotiating/policy manual. The question is, do we have to comply with the wishes of anyone else other than the Delta pilots? From what I've read we don't. Which makes this a moot point. Where we should expend our energy is telling our reps that scope is a priority and educating our fellow pilots as well. I know everyone is worked up about DCI, and I'm not happy with the outsourcing we've allowed, but I don't blame the RJ pilots for that. We own that and we'll own it in the future. If the Delta pilots are willing to allow more outsourcing, it doesn't matter whether ALPA or the DPA is the bargaining agent. Likewise, if the Delta pilots want to fight to protect our scope, it probably doesn't matter either. At the end of the day the only folks voting on our contract will be Delta pilots.

I'm way beyond my post quota for the day, so I'll go back to lurking. Keep it civil folks, that way we can actually exchange ideas and not just salvos.

 

Yeah...this letter from the APA President taht you posted comments about:

Captain Lee Moak
President
Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
1625 Massachusetts Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20036

Captain Tim O’Malley
Chairman
Delta Master Executive Council
100 Hartsfield Centre Parkway, Suite 800
Atlanta, GA 30354

Lee and Tim,
I wanted to take a moment to let you know that I recently responded to an outreach from
Delta First Officer Xxx Xxxxxxxxx who contacted me in his capacity as the leader of the Delta
Pilots Association.
I made it perfectly clear to Mr. Xxxxxxxxx that in my opinion, a breakaway of the Delta
pilots from ALPA would likely prove highly disadvantageous for the Delta pilots and destructive
to our profession as a whole. When APA broke away from ALPA in 1963 the labor environment
for airline pilots in the United States was far different than it is today. JFK was the President at
the time and had recently come out strongly in favor of organized pilots in the Southern Airways
dispute of 1962. American’s pilots prospered during the benign days of regulation, but that
prosperity ended abruptly with the onset of deregulation.
I have always thought it is better to work within the existing political framework to
achieve reform than by wreaking havoc upon one’s organization. After I was hired at American,
I led the battle against the two-tier pay system – not by trying to tear things apart, but by working
within the system. Ultimately, with patience and perseverance, we prevailed.
I also expressed my significant concerns about the law firm Mr. Xxxxxxxxx's group has
enlisted as their counsel. The Allied Pilots Association had a previous relationship with the
Seham law firm and eventually dismissed them. Shortly after the Sehams were dismissed at
APA, they began coordinating with a pro-management dissident group at American called the
AICA which has been trying to destabilize and decertify APA ever since. They are also involved
on American’s property in a decertification effort with the TWU and were heavily involved with
the disaster which occurred with the mechanics at Northwest.
I further recommended that Mr. Xxxxxxxxx carefully evaluate his group’s present course
of action. I know that institutional inertia is a difficult thing to overcome, however I think that a
Delta breakaway from ALPA would further fracture and destabilize our profession and play right
into the hands of management teams across the industry. Lee and Tim, as you are well aware, I
am working in exactly the opposite direction – trying to move pilot unions closer together as
evidenced by the fact that APA has recently signed a services agreement with ALPA to help
APA negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement.
Finally, I asked Mr. Xxxxxxxxx to cease misrepresenting my position as part of his
recruitment efforts. I stand strongly behind the leadership at ALPA and have been working
diligently to forge closer cooperation and coordination between APA and ALPA. To be clear, I
will wield my veto power at CAPA to defeat any attempts by the DPA to make any sort of
overtures to CAPA.

Sincerely,
Captain Dave Bates
President

 

Shiznit,

Over the last few months I have asked the same question. Of the current total members, how many cards have expired? This should be important to DPA. Your interest card only lasts one year. At a previous drive I was involved in we organized our cards by month. Prior to expiration we would mail a new self addressed, postage paid interest card to the expiring member.

Hiding FPL is a big issue with both Alpa members and DPA members. I believe hiding the true number of members by DPA is similar to hiding FPL data. Both organizations are not being forthcoming.

 

76;

I agree, from what I've read (from ALPA), we don't have to comply with the meet and confer outcome.

However, the ALPA president has to sign our contract. Even though we have never had M&C in previous section 6, I HAVE TO remain sceptical that the ALPA president is going to sign a DAL contract that does grave harm to the flying operations of our outsourced ALPA DCI's.

My understanding is the M&C language is the result of an out of court settlement between ALPA and DCI. Out of court settlements that are concessionary to mainline strike me as a suit we mainline pilots were going to lose. I remain unconvinced that the language is toothless until actions prove me wrong...We have given up way too much flying. If we don't get some significant amount of it back, there are teeth in meet and confer.