Airline Pilot Central Forums - The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tanker (Post 918823)

PropPiedmont
SWA can't park the aircraft, here is what SL6 says.
"The ratio of scheduled operational Southwest Airlines aircraft to total AirTran aircraft will not drop below the pre-transaction ratio of 3.61 to 1 (SWA to AirTran) during the period prior to complete pilot integration."
So SL6 counts all AirTran aircraft but only the operational SWA aircraft.

Exactly. Operational aircraft are what keep pilots employed. We agreed with SWA (SL6) to gaurantee no growth (increase in operational aircraft).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Seat 1Engine (Post 918904)

Wow, you're angry for no apparent reason. I don't think you understand what we're doing here.

We're not sacrificing any growth of any kind, just making sure the company doesn't grow AAI's cheaper work force at the expense of SWA's better compensated workforce during the period that the operations are fenced off from each other.

What's not being said here is that SWAPA also has an agreement with the company that the two operations must be combined within 2 years of closing the deal. The fence must last less than 2 years.

Nope. Not angry. Sarcastic ? ... Absolutely. More smiley faces, would that help ? :D

I was trying to point out some implications of attempting to run the companies separately. Like USAir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 917294)

Hi Carl,

But with AAI and SWA, the decisions the arbitrators will have to make are significantly simpler. No guessing on which "heavy" is more desireable. No guessing over the "better bases" issue.

20 year AAI Career expectation: 737 captain
20 year SWA Career expectation: 737 captain

Sure, there is a pay rate differential, but that can change contract to contract. Seniority, however, is forever.

But there is some similarity with the DAL/NWA situation. While SWA has a better pay rate, AAI has some fairly decent workrules and fairly good QoL protection and GREAT health insurance (far better than our "Plan N" for the same money) and a very nice defined contribution plan.

Heck, their schedule bidding closes on the 16th at 10am, and they had their results today by 3pm.

Nu

UPS pilot career expectation: 747 Captain.
Southern Air pilot career expectation: 747 Captain.

While they both will end up on the same equipment I find it very unbelievable that they have the same career expectations.

How stable is my company? When will I be able to retire and with how much? How many days off will I receive throughout my career? What are my work rules like? How will I be treated by management? I believe all these points are developing my career expectations.

I am in no way knocking the AT guys, they are a fine group that have always treated me great and I will welcome them at SWA. But, I would venture a guess that if they had a chance to swap our contract with theirs they would do it in a heartbeat. Of course their contract has strong points, as does everyone's. They bring a lot to the table on many fronts and they are a great fit in the SWA system which is why the acquisition is taking place.

The discussion is fruitless. We will end up in arbitration and someone else will decide the fate of both pilot groups. In the end everyone will share some portion of the pain. Welcome aboard guys and gals, you'll like it here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigflya (Post 916372)

Yes. AT's been in ALPA about a year or so and they will get a new contract and merger arbitration assistance. Then they will leave ALPA for SWAPA. They will get more then they put in IMO. Lucky them.

Alpa will feed them to the wolves in the blink of an eye. Airtran will get more than they put in? Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by izzy (Post 923335)

Alpa will feed them to the wolves in the blink of an eye. Airtran will get more than they put in? Nope.

ALPA will do exactly enough not to get sued, no more no less.

Anything can happen if both sides agree. For example, SWA contract states a two year fence. But it could be less or more if agreed by both sides.

Every acquisition is not the same. This one is going to work since AirTran long time ago based their culture from SWA.

Will it work? Time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionTanker (Post 923448)

This one is going to work since AirTran long time ago based their culture from SWA.

Are you kidding me? The tales I have heard from the many ex-AirTran pilots I have flown with, make it sound like the cultures of ATN and SWA are about as different as black and white. To wit:

ATN=Lorenzo

SWA=Herb

'nuff said?

Smokey, look back at the start of ValuJet and you will see that the business model was based on SWA and Delta. The culture was based on SWA. No arguments please, I was at ValuJet for several years.

Now you look at AirTran and there was a transformation to what it is today. Management put a huge knife in the back of the culture. The AirTran acquisition is still going to work. I will say this again, AirTran and its culture are the best fit with SWA. No other airline comes a close second.

Have a great year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrionTanker (Post 923683)

Smokey, look back at the start of ValuJet and you will see that the business model was based on SWA and Delta. The culture was based on SWA. No arguments please, I was at ValuJet for several years.

That's ridiculous statement. ValuJet is long gone, and so is any vestige of "being like SWA".

The Valujet name was retired 13 years ago. So, if I read what you wrote correctly, it's been at least that long since you were there. Things have changed a lot - My friends say it's nothing like SWA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 917535)

There are a few former DAL guys doing exactly the same thing... idiots.

There is always some "idiot" with 20/20 hindsight vision.