Fishfreighter

You realize that's the justification scabs use to cross picket lines, don't you?

Sense? Did it ever occur to you that there a plenty of other aviation jobs that will provide a sense of worth and a living equal to or greater than some crappy regional airline?

The fact is that the more pilots who have the Boehner "So Be It" mentality, the fewer Major airline jobs will be available for them in the future.

You might want to consider the fact that as the Majors continue to outsource flying to regional airlines who man their schedules with guys like you, YOUR regional airline might be your final stop, not your stepping stone. Ask the next Comair pilot you see how its working out for him.

Hopefully, WE can solidify and expand scope language and drive a stake through the heart of regional airlines.

ToiletDuck

Fishfreighter to each his own. Chill.

Car Ramrod

Wow... This guy was probably flying before you were born. Show some respect.

jayme

So as part of a pilot group that just gave away more flying, do you, or do you not see the hipocrisy? You give away the flying and then berate the pilots that take the work. You are a fool with no understanding of human nature. I'll give you a short course: people do what's best for them, then their families, then their friends, then their tribe, then their country, then society as a whole.

You want to protect the profession? It starts at mainline scope. Since you don't have any, you only have yourself to blame. Well, yourself, and human nature.

TrojanCMH

Carl do you really think that coming onto messages boards and telling people to quit or not take regional jobs is really accomplishing anything? As long as majors require turbine time and there are regionals offering jobs people are gonna be there to take them. I agree that regional airlines are undermining our profession but this shift in the profession you are so fired up about needs to start at the top. Every morning I wake up and drag my ass to the airport just so I can fly around a jet for less than a Chili's bartender makes just so I might have the opportunity to move on and get hired at a major someday. I'd give my left nut to be able to fly a regional jet while on a mainline list and not have to worry about any of the regional BS that we deal with on a daily basis. But how are all of us supposed to get all of those thousands of hours of TPIC time needed to be worthy enough to get someone to call us back for an interview. Sure you can say go get a job flying corporate or some other form of turbine flying but the reality is those jobs are so scarce that it's next to impossible to find something without the same experience it takes to get on with a major to begin with...

So let me ask you this: If you are really serious about taking back the flying then how much of a pay cut would you be willing to take to bring it back? How would the average line pilots at your airline feel about taking a significant cut in pay or QOL to bring it back? Coming on here and preaching about taking back the flying is great and all but it isn't doing anything. Are you mainline guys willing to give anything up or is it just a bunch of soapbox preaching? Nothing in life comes for free. And don't get me wrong, I don't think you should have to give anything up but the reality is that management isn't going to just roll over and give you guys all the flying back for nothing.

Next time you look over and see all of us regional guys taxing around on your ramp remember that none of us would be here if the majors were hiring guys with 1500 hours of piston time...

tsquare

I read what you wrote... and all I will say is this: That is easy for you or me to say.... now. Just like guys talking about retiring early. Easy to blather on about until you are actually faced with the decision. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and concede that you did in fact turn down another job for that philosophical reason. good for you. I think times are much different now also. The much ballyhooed pilot shortage we have been hearing about for tha last 20 years STILL hasn't materialized, so there aren't any more jobs to be had.. and guess what.. SOMEBODY's gonna take those jobs. Kind of like GS with guys on furlough. I admire your philosophical stance as I said, but from a practical standpoint, you are whizzin in the wind. It is not an easy problem with a simple solution.

Fishfreighter

WE gave away the flying? The COMPANY sold the flying to the lowest bidder. And, yes, I blame the pilots willing to lowball Horizon's wages/benefits and taking their jobs.

I completely agree with you there. Perhaps our pilot group has FINALLY learned the value of strong scope language. Hopefully when the next contract Wilson poll goes out, scope will be high on the priority list.

BoilerUP

A company can only sell that flying which their pilot group contractually allows to be sold via Section 1 language; the company can't sell flying that your pilot group contractually owns.

Legacy pilots looking for a scapegoat can blame regional pilots all they want, but given the above FACT, "blame" starts directly by looking in the mirror.

DALPA allowing Comair the very first CRJ-100 started the slippery slope of scope erosion; for the next decade legacy pilots sold their small jet scope in exchange for higher pay, retirement, and other contractual priorities.

First it was 50 seat jets, then it was 70 seat jets.

During the bankruptcy proceedings of the last decade, more scope was lost allowing greater numbers of 70 and even 76 seat "small jets"...although there's an argument to be made that the depth of scope erosion during this period might have been mitigated had it been a higher priority for negotiators.

One can only hope for the betterment of the entire profession that legacy pilots have FINALLY realized the value and importance of strong scope language, make it the priority it needs to be in order to preserve jobs, and make strong gains during this decade in recapturing any of it that they can.

...but forgive me for being skeptical that pilots will be willing to spend the negotiating capital that will be required to buy back what has been sold.

TraneOfThought

With all due respect there's more than enough blame to go around, at the end of the day folks are going to do what's best for them. Even if it means selling the junior guys down the river, taking a job which they know isn't the "ethical" think to do, so on and so on. It's sad I remember when going DCA flight school in the mid 90's right before the crj came out mainline pilots said I'm not flying those "barbie jets". Don't blame you, but that was the paradigm shift, then within a few years mainline was jumping stink about how regional pilots are taking their jobs.

Lord knows we all wish we can take this all back, but we can't so how do we fix it?



Just my $.002 cents

Fishfreighter

True. I never said it didn't. However, Companies will continue to outsource flying to the lowest bidder as long as there are pilots willing to work for the lowest bidder. Because the lowest bid starts with cheaper labor rates.


I believe that's what I said.