Year's worth of AA pilots retire in one day
09-02-2011, 10:07 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,165
Originally Posted by APC225
Airline Biz Blog | Sep 01, 2011
As American Airlines pilots know intimately, their B Plan has an interesting feature. A pilot can lock in the value of the B Plan shares backwards for 60 days. If the shares fall sharply, they can retire and still get the shares' value from 60 days before their retirement.
As American Airlines pilots know intimately, their B Plan has an interesting feature. A pilot can lock in the value of the B Plan shares backwards for 60 days. If the shares fall sharply, they can retire and still get the shares' value from 60 days before their retirement.
Or is it that you can put in your retirement papers on 2 Sep for 1 Oct retirement and lock in 60 days back from 2 Sep? ... which is still 90 days.
09-02-2011, 10:13 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
I don't buy it...AMR can't just walk in to court and say we want to reorganize under bankruptcy protection with 5 billion in cash. They have to show a need for protection due to impending insolvency.
If they can do it, what would stop any company from doing it. I could see it now...Apple to the Bankruptcy judge..."Nevermind that we have tons of cash to pay our bills, we want to declare bankruptcy to stiff our creditors because we can".
With that said, the continued losses at AMR makes bankruptcy look like it is not too many years down the road.
If they can do it, what would stop any company from doing it. I could see it now...Apple to the Bankruptcy judge..."Nevermind that we have tons of cash to pay our bills, we want to declare bankruptcy to stiff our creditors because we can".
With that said, the continued losses at AMR makes bankruptcy look like it is not too many years down the road.
09-02-2011, 10:35 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 70
"[BK]...as stated by Mr. Agusti, to maximize shareholder value by lessening corporate cost structure and dismissing unwanted debt."
I don't really understand the above quote, as I thought that in BK the shareholders were wiped out? What would be left for them after the secured creditors took their cut?
I don't really understand the above quote, as I thought that in BK the shareholders were wiped out? What would be left for them after the secured creditors took their cut?
09-02-2011, 11:18 AM
#36
(retired)
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Old, retired, healthy, debt-free, liquid
Posts: 422
Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville
I don't buy it...AMR can't just walk in to court and say we want to reorganize under bankruptcy protection with 5 billion in cash. They have to show a need for protection due to impending insolvency.
If they can do it, what would stop any company from doing it. I could see it now...Apple to the Bankruptcy judge..."Nevermind that we have tons of cash to pay our bills, we want to declare bankruptcy to stiff our creditors because we can".
With that said, the continued losses at AMR makes bankruptcy look like it is not too many years down the road.
If they can do it, what would stop any company from doing it. I could see it now...Apple to the Bankruptcy judge..."Nevermind that we have tons of cash to pay our bills, we want to declare bankruptcy to stiff our creditors because we can".
With that said, the continued losses at AMR makes bankruptcy look like it is not too many years down the road.
Don't assume that by filing BK under Chapter 11 a company automatically gets it's way and calls whatever shots it wants.
A reorganization plan requires a complex court and creditor approval. A pre-emptive chapter 11 filing is certainly under the purview of most companies. However, it should be clear that the approval threshold and arguments would be vastly different than a filing by a company on the verge of a Chapter 7.
09-02-2011, 04:22 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: C172 Right
Posts: 64
What happened to DL when they went into BK back in 06 (correct me if I'm wrong)? As in the kind of concessions everyone took, how long it took to exit BK, and how long it took to see a decent contract post BK.
I ask that because I'm wondering if AA does declare, heaven forbid, do you think it will resemble DL's bankruptcy situation or UA's for the pilots?
I ask that because I'm wondering if AA does declare, heaven forbid, do you think it will resemble DL's bankruptcy situation or UA's for the pilots?
09-02-2011, 04:32 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by A320fan
What happened to DL when they went into BK back in 06 (correct me if I'm wrong)? As in the kind of concessions everyone took, how long it took to exit BK, and how long it took to see a decent contract post BK.
I ask that because I'm wondering if AA does declare, heaven forbid, do you think it will resemble DL's bankruptcy situation or UA's for the pilots?
I ask that because I'm wondering if AA does declare, heaven forbid, do you think it will resemble DL's bankruptcy situation or UA's for the pilots?
The only thing that brought DAL's rates back up 20% was the NWA merger.
09-02-2011, 04:56 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,238
Originally Posted by threeighteen
Yep. I mentioned that a few months ago when they ordered. It's more of a airframe hedge and a place to hide cash than a fleet renewal plan. They'll probably take delivery of less than half of their total orders+options.
You state that you think less than 1/2 of the total options and orders. Given that there are 460 orders and 465(?) options I'd say you might be right. Why? Because the 797(NSA)(737 replacement) is due to appear about the time the firm orders stop. Great position for AA to be in and that puts all the post 2022(ish)(or whenever the 797 shows up) options are risk.
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