aa73

Sorry guys and gals... I keep reading all these threads about Frontier and Republic without quite grasping what is going on over there and why all the drama. I guess I haven't followed that change in the industry.

Can you guys explain in a nutshell what is going on?

I do know that Republic bought Frontier a couple of years ago. That's it - that's all I know.

What exactly are you guys angry about?

thx,
73

Dirty Rat

Here it is from a former Midwest pilot who lost my 20+ year career to both these pathetic groups. Plays out like this. RAH bought a bankrupt Frontier after the dumbest move by any pilot group in the history of aviation when the F9 pilots refused a merger offer with SWA. Claimed it would had resulted in loss of jobs. RAH buys them and Midwest, sells off Midwest and throws their pilots out in the streets where they remain today. Now, Frontier pilots feel they should be a separate entity and should not have to let any of the pond scum RAH pilots fly the Holy Airbus. For some reason, the F9 pilots feel they are the only ones entitled to that airplane. Now they are fighting over which sorry union is going to represent them. They are to blind to see they are a sinking ship. Truth is, they deserve each other. RAH is a low life, low ball airline and F9 cannot stand on it's own. I just like watching them blame each other and am thankful I will never have to join this mess with these particular pilots. I hope they all sink.

aa73

WOW - thanks. Didn't the Frontier pilots have any kind of scope clause to prevent what happened to Midwest? I mean, how could Republic just "throw out" the Midwest pilots legally?

X2FLY

Dirty Rat- How appropriate.. Dude, your airline was sinking faster than a lead weight all on it's own. Pretty pathetic you would blame F9 for ANY of it.

Dirty Rat

Just remember that when you see a Midwest airplane, it is a replacement aircraft flown by lower paid replacement pilots who gladly took our jobs. F9 took over a bunch of our routes and opened a base in MKE. To bad for us at YX, but hey, they still get to fly their Precious Airbus. Now both of these groups make up thread after thread accusing each other of foul play. I lost my job to these people so I don't care what happens to them.

Dirty Rat

You were bankrupt. We were not.

flyguy23

In a nutshell, RAH bought two failing airlines. One airline was not yet in bankruptcy (midwest), but all their planes were being taken back by boeing due to poor decisions by their previous management. RAH bought them and used RAH aircraft to fly those routes while furloughing all the pilots. Despite the feelings of the RAH pilots, they were not legally able to do anything to refuse that flying. Naturally it turned into a pilot hating on pilot ordeal. It was well orchestrated by management to say the least.

Next RAH bought F9 out of bankruptcy. RAH scope is very clear and is why pilots from all the acquired airlines are being integrated into one list. F9 pilots do not agree and are fighting vigilantly to derail integration with support from RAH management. Bedford has successfully put the two groups against each other. Another well orchestrated move by RAH management that both pilot groups have fallen for hook line and sinker.

In the end, you have a number of pilot groups that are fighting each other tooth and nail, and management looking down smiling the whole time. Its a load of fun.

aa73

I honestly did not want to start an argument, just needed clarification on the issues.

I'm sorry to see what happened to the YX pilots.... but what could F9 pilots do to stop the deal? Republic played everyone like a fool, that is apparently their specialty (no disrespect meant towards RAH pilots, just their management.)

FAULTPUSH

Just to be clear: I think that means that you think that what happened to the TWA guys was generous, right?

aa73: Here's a version from a Frontier pilot's perspective. Frontier went into Ch 11, had a late offer by SWA with 24 hours to negotiate a seniority integration. If thatby itself is not enough for you to determine the outcome, SWA wanted a staple with no job protections for the approximately 1/3 of our pilots who would have been furloughed in the process. We proposed that we'd consider a staple if they would guarantee pay and benefits for the furloughed pilots. Time ran out (surprise!), RAH's offer was accepted, and would likely have been even chosen if FAPA had accepted the staple job from SWA, due to the conditions of the Southwest offer.

The Lynx, Frontier, and Midwest pilots attempted to negotiate a seniority integration, and were somewhere in the same ballpark. IBT (for RAH pilots) showed up late and asked for something very different from what the other three groups were working on. The SLI ended up in arbitration, with more or less a percentage merger. I'm a Frontier captain with 2 years more longevity than the E145 immediately above me on the combined list. FAPA did the usual thing in an SLI and filed appeals.

RAH merged the operation of the two airlines to the point where the NMB ruled that we are a single carrier (watch out AA guys - Eagle might get a sweet deal if they can do the same!) That means that in 7 years, when the fence comes down, I potentially might get bumped from Airbus captain to ERJ captain.

Frontier has been bleeding due to the high oil prices and low RASM. By year's end, the losses on the Frontier side will exceed the profits of the fee for departure side. The RAH BOD told Bedford to fix it or they would have to shut down Frontier. Bedford came to FAPA, Airbus, GECAS, airports, etc, looking for reductions in costs. FAPA agreed to a pay freeze in return for an equity investment in the company, separation from RAH, and profit sharing. The conditions of the agreement state that if the other parties don't also chip in, we continue to get our snapbacks to payrates prior the bankruptcy (and the likely demise of Frontier).

The RAH pilots are upset that they may not get to slide into an Airbus without having to interview and start back at the bottom somewhere else, and are thus pretty ****ed that the SLI might be mooted.

On the representation side of things, there is a representation vote going on, which no party wanted but was forced on us by the NMB. RAH/IBT has 2000 pilots to Frontier's 650. IBT has offered no certainty that Frontier pilots would have any representation on their EXCO (similar to MEC), so FAPA is pitching the Republic Pilots Council which would leave the current representation on each side intact, with a common council of 3 pilots from each airline to work on merging us in an equitable fashion. IBT doesn't want that to happen, because it's better for RAH/IBT to have total control vs. sharing it with the Frontier pilots.

flyguy23

They were not "thrown out". Their furlough was unfortunately scheduled before RAH purchased Midwest. I know Midwest guys wanted to fly RAH planes once they were put on the routes, but it wasn't possible without integration. Now we are integrated and the YX are on the master list. As long as FAPA isn't successful in having the integration thrown out, YX can start filling vacancies if they chose in a few months. As for Dirty Rat, don't pay much attention to what he says. Hes understandably bitter and jaded. He however has lost all ability to use logic and intelligence when discussing this matter.