I just looked up the AF/KLM payrates and I saw 9000 euros/mo after taxes for their highest paid position ($12,4000), maybe I looked in the wrong area.

Absolutely no weight at all...if you don't ask for them. And ALPA has no intention to ask for them. Regardless of the survey results.

Carl

Agreed. I've been really busy since the survey came out, but I finally got it done last night. I couldn't help thinking to myself what a waste of time it probably was. But I put what I thought and I guess we'll see. My prediction is that we'll never see the survey results and we'll have an opener of less than a 20% increase in pay. Restoration? Not going to happen with this MEC.

Both NWALPA and DALPA said snapbacks were impossible because...the company said so. The company said industry revenue had been permanently reset, never to return. Thus snapbacks were impossible. And our ALPA experts agreed.

Carl

Actually it's 9,700 euros or 13,190 US after taxation. Income tax alone is 41%, and other mandated taxation deductions takes you above 50%. But let's just say 50% to be conservative. To make 13,190 after taxes, it means you gross over 26,000 per month or 312,000 per year. And that's living in a semi-socialist environment with lots of "free" stuff.

Now do you see why ALPA just couldn't find the time to compare us to Air France?

Carl

Ok, show that data first. No one can seem to get a straight answer our of them. I have a KLM friend that is a Capt that is making in the range of 194 euros an hour plus better per diem, better vacation and line construction etc.

Second, we are not just talking about pay, but their benefits, vacation etc. Do not forget that the have significant government subsidized retirement and medical which we do not have. They start with six weeks of vacation, etc. Apples to apples. We need to look at the cost of each pilot to the corporation, not just pilot take home pay. Total cost and then look at what we have and then assign a value to what they get that they do not have to pay for.

Darn Carl, you saved me the work of editing my post. I assumed the quoted figure was post tax. Of course it is. Lets put a valuation on their other bennies too. I bet their post senior pilot total compensation packages are double ours.

That is where my point was heading. We as the cheaper option are subsidizing their higher costs with a profit sharing metal neutral JV. I am sure we knew it when we signed it, and some things are needed, but the reality is that we need to take this in to consideration when we are negotiating with the company within mediation or otherwise. It is a very pertinent fact.

On you point about the comparison, I have repeatedly said that ALPA will catch a lot of heat if they present the JV data after the Contract survey closes. I have been told that it is just one bit of data and we are all smart enough to make informed decisions. I know I have been.

Actually Carl, ALPA volunteers were in AMS and CDG this month meeting with counterparts to produce this comparison (as directed by the MEC). Look for it in your inbox in the not too distant future.

Carl,

Wher were you able to view the Air France Pay Rates?

It is good it was moved up. A few months ago, they were not planning on meeting until early Oct.