+40% pay
All delta flying done by delta pilots.


If I don't see these I don't vote yes. I'm a pretty simple dude.

This is awesome ...

Man that has a real nice ring to it!

Reverend Carl Spackler or as we like to call him down at the homeless pilot shelter "R C" :D:D:D

Is this "fact" or "opinion"?

How about an opinion, based on facts?

We could get into numerous layers of expectation management over the last couple years but let's instead just focus on one of the most recent developments.

Let's look at the recent slot swap "mainline massacre" where DALPA and the company worked together to lobby for something that was promoted as significantly helping mainline. Turns out it didn't help mainline as the slot growth was DCI to the tune of 95% or so. And now for the rest of the story: (Paul Harvey all up in hey, ch'all!)

After the "mainline massacre" there were several LEC written statements released on the subject from multipile LEC's including the biggest one that's closest to the action on Va. Ave. While they all said how they were dissapointed and were misled by the company and were promised significantly more mainline growth that we saw, all the letters summarized by stating that not only was everything kosher within our CBA, but this was still good news because it would result in more revenue for the company and we will hopefully get a share of that. Let's break those two things down shall we?

Yes, it is legal IAW our CBA. Duh. But what's the 64 million dollar follow on question? Hint: it was one that was never asked. A scope clause that would allow 255 DC-9 replacement jets to be operated to the lowest bidder is an epic fail and needs to be reigned in...significantly! Yet that wasn't said at all.

OK fine, but what about the sharing the wealth from the new NYC revenue? This is perhaps the most egregious thing they could have said in the first place because that myopic mentality is the one that caused the 255 DC-9 replacements and hundreds of additional outsourced jets to begin with!

Ergo one could read those letters as "yeah, we're upset too and we were directly lied to and mislead intentionally by the company, but its perfectly legal and all that outsourcing will lead to mainline prosperity!" To put it another way, "yeah, the company lied to us and used us to support their anti mainline plans, but we think there will be revenue from this that we can get a piece of so its all good." Followed by some very vague mention of scope with little to no specifics and there we have it.

Srsly? Yeah, that's basically what was said. We may or may not be OK with massive outsourcing at the RJ50 level, the DC-9-10 level, the 737 level and the A380 level, but hey, its perfectly legal and besides we get all this revenue from sourcing out to the lowest bidder so hey, what's good for the company is good for us. :rolleyes:

What Carl stated about the union is of course fact.

Consider how they became compromised and why and how it can be easily fixed

Note: The political power base is the Committee chair positions. They are compensated with FPL.

FPL can reach 92 hrs per month on the highest equipment one can hold.

Additional stipend of $1,000 or more per month is added on top of that.

FPL and the stipend are paid for by DAL. (Not confirmed but DPA claims there are about debit cards that are handed out to reps that are loosely accounted for as well. That one is hearsay.)

Fact. Committee level union officials are still getting C2K pay or better.


Therefore,





In order for the pilots to attain a fair and aquitable contract for their families and themselves, they must be unified. Presently, the group is fractured among competing interests. One is going to have to emerge and lead this group effectively. It can be done. It must be done.

Right now, it is DALPA's contest to either win or lose. Presently, DALPA, or to be completely accurate, the commitee structure and leadership, is struggling.

They are driven only by their brazen self interests in pursuit of political survival. They are struggling to perserve that authority. They can not lead and unify if they are only interested in their regime and their current compensation structure. Introspective thought and change is needed.

This is important as you asked if it fact or opinion that DALPA is compromised:

DALPA and DAL have close relationship that contain rewards. Kind of like rewards that governments provide to other governments. All aid money is dispersed not to alleviate poverty, but to purchase loyalty and influence.

Think about that. Now we all know why FPL is such a third rail political issue. We can not succeed if we are not unifed or have effective leadership. We can not be unifed or led when there is question as to the loyalty and influence of our leadership.

Will the our leaders in the union push hard for a return on our bankruptcy sacrafices that we all rightfully deserve? Or, will they continue to attempt to manage our expectations down and settle for incremental gains that don't even match the line pilots benefits and pay to SWA while continuing to prosper with C2K for themselves?

I'd rather pay more dues money earmarked for our use and not Nationals to cover FPL (with a monthly accounting) than have DAL in the equation. Think of the impact a change like this would have.

It breaks the ability to purchase loyalty and influence by the company for a small to no increase in dues for line pilots


http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...er_offline.gif

All of your "facts"...aren't.:rolleyes:

There are no committee people getting 92 hours of FPL. Full time committee folks got 87 hours this past year. For 2010 it was 82 hours. Committee folks get paid for the category they're in, not what they can hold.

There are no "debit cards." This is more DPA tripe. All expenses have to be approved through the MEC Treasurer and then are reviewed by the National staff for payment. There's also Federal labor and tax law regulating what can be expensed, and the totals are disclosed each year on the LM-2.

At 87 hours plus the monthly per diem, there are no ALPA Committee folks getting C2K PAY. There are DPA guys that have had over 300 hour months and one of the most prolific DPA posters had one month with 195 hours last summer. Of course there are those DPA committee guys that took loans from the Delta pilot funded furlough and emergency relief fund, then refused to honor their committment to pay that back. Another DPA guy got mad at ALPA-PAC for not contributing to a couple of his political campaigns. He'd never contributed a dime...go figure.

Your paycheck is paid by DAL. Your argument says you're compromised as a union member.:p

Oh, the power resides in the pilot group. They elect the representatives that elect the MEC Administration AND those reps then confirm the committee chairs. There's open ballots right now for 2 of the 21 elected rep positions. Ballots for 5 of the voting seats closed last fall. Each year at least 3 councils are elected by the membership.

So again, your facts are anything but.

Edited to clear up Carl's word parsing, deflection, and obvious confusion.

[QUOTE=slowplay;1110124]Full time committee folks got 87 hours this past year. For 2010 it was 82 hours. /QUOTE]

I'd like to know why they got an increase in the number of hours they are paid for every month.

As far as some of the other things you posted: Several months ago (April?) there was a resolution passed regarding Flight Pay Loss data being made public. Eight months later it still hasn't been released.

Delta pilots whether on this forum, in lounges, or in cockpits are very frustrated by this failure on ALPA's part. If there's nothing to hide (as you say) make the data available. Otherwise, people will probably continue to make assumptions which may (or may not) be true.

"Mainline massacre"?......everyone (including DALPA) is disappointed in the RJ presence on these routes, but you are attempting to make it sound as though it is an increase in RJs when it's not.

I will ASSUME that it is not an increase in RJs, but I need some convincing. So can you tell me what the daily block hour usage prior to the slot swap for RJs was, and what it will be post slot swap?

What tsquare said, but I will add that the specific NYC growth was dressed up and sold as something that will benefit mainline and it hasn't. All its allowed is the flexibility to close MEM and reallocate inferior product, high cost RJ resources to one of the most critical markets in the world where we are in a fierce battle with a superior mainline product. Its turning LGA into a mainline high bypass alter ego hub because NYC is the mother of all O&D markets and we're betting the farm (again) on outsourced RJ's there. At least this time those RJ's are DC-9 replacement size though so it should turn out better. :rolleyes:

Oh and of course all that outsourcing will produce revenues that we will be able to share in! That is so freaking brilliant. We should totally give up more outsourcing so that we can have more riches to share in!

Just so everyone knows, when slowplay here tries to tell you that The Managers facts aren't fact, he's telling you this as one of those highly paid unelected MEC bureaucrat committee guys. He is the perfect example of why a guy would put out such disinformation to manage your expectations downward, so he can make his masters (DAL management) happy. When DAL management is happy, slowplay gets to continue making C2K money while he "represents" the pilots.

We pilots are indeed paid by Delta when we work on behalf of Delta. Slowplay is paid by Delta when he "works" on behalf of the pilots. That's the difference. And it's a big difference.

Carl

Care to refute what slowplay is saying then, Carl?

OK...

My reps and other reps tell me it can be as high as 92 hours per month based on circumstances. Exactly as The Manager states. The one way we could all find out is if DALPA released FPL data as demanded by our resolution that DALPA killed. Wonder why they did that?

Again, reps have told me just the opposite. Debit cards are used for this purpose, but they are indeed approved through the MEC Treasurer and reviewed by National Staff.

Nobody said anything different.

I particularly love this part. It sounds like an answer doesn't it. But the TOTALS don't mean anything if you can't apply them to an individual committee person or volunteer. Maybe slowplay really meant that the LM-2 lists each committee member and volunteer by name, and lists that person's totals. My guess is that the LM-2 just shows the grand total.

At 92 hours, there are.

Name the 300 hour guy, and/or the 195 hour guy. Or even PM us the names.

Who did that? Name the guy.

Who did that? Name the guy.

Another one I really loved. My work as a Delta pilot is on behalf of Delta. It makes perfect sense that Delta would pay me. Slowplay and the other bureaucrats are supposed to be working on behalf of Delta pilots, yet they're paid by Delta management. That not only doesn't make sense, it is a setup for what we have now...union leadership beholden to management and attending each others kid's birthday parties.

Utter nonsense. The killing of the pilot's flight pay loss resolution is just the latest example of where the power really lies.

If you talk to some current and former reps, they'll tell you what happense to you if you as a rep try to upset the MEC apple cart. You'll be isolated from key information, forgotten to be called for snap teleconferences and used as an example to other LEC reps as to what can happen if you don't shut up and color.

As stated many times before, reps don't matter. Change them at will, and nothing will change because the power lies in the MEC committee staff. That's the way a top-down union works.

Carl

Thanks, Carl. :D Hope you're enjoying tonight at home!

You too bro. Happy New Year.

Carl

Hey Carl,

Thanks and Happy New Year. I read Slow's response to my post and contemplated it.... for a minute. I was late to a New Years party and decided to put it in a hold for later.

You captured everything I had planned to say.

One point I do want to reiterate.

YES the Committee guys are getting C2K pay.

Slow, you responded that they are not getting C2K rates. Rates, of course not. But if you take 92, or even 87 hours of pay.... on the highest equipment they can hold plus stipends/per diem, etc., then their W2's look no different than they probably did in 2001.

Mind you, while they are representing the interests and needs of the pilots, this windfall is paid for by Delta, not ALPA.

So, while line guys are dealing with an average line value of 72 hours a month from Nov-March with little to no open time to pick up, and while still under a bk contract, those under full FPL see no change from C2K.

Tell us again how they are down here in the trenches with us fighting and are not swayed at all by the company's funded influence?

So easy to change. How about the line pilots pay you all to represent us?

No matter how many times you repeat it, your statement still is not factual. I did not parse words. But now you're equivocating. Before you asserted that W2's looked no different than C2K. Now you're stating "probably...in 2001." I'm sure if pay went back to the May 2001 scale you'd excoriate ALPA while beating your DPA tamborine.

Committee guys get paid in the category they are assigned. They are not paid what they can hold. Only "designated pilots" are paid what they can hold (MEC Officers, Pilot Director, and Negotiating Committee). That stuff is in the contract, you might try reading it. Oh, the list of 24J pilots is in there too.

Who did that? Name the guy

Who did that? Name the guy


Maybe you ought to actually read the source material, assistant groundskeeper. Then you wouldn't have to guess. The LM-2 breaks out all compensation and expense reimbursement (per diem, expenses, vacation reimbursement, etc.) for every individual. The document is way more intrusive than Federal requirements for publicly traded corporations, as they only are required to list the top 5 earners. Oh, all the stuff the union funds, such as the Charitable Fund and Furlough/Emergency Relief fund is in their too.


Not on a public forum. But their schedules were all available for pilot review. The big DPA poster had 15 days of greenslips made legal by 12 days of sick drops over the 3 summer months.

All disclosed in the LM-2, Bushwood bomber. You'll see the DPA NC and Safety committees have representatives on that list with debts to the Delta pilots by their names.


There is only one guy on DPA's NC that has run for major public office (3 times). Asking for money from a union PAC that you've never contributed to is hypocritical, don't you think?

I guess you don't like democracy, Spackler. Remember, it's not the Detroit Pilots Association. The other councils representing the other 9,000 plus pilots get a vote too. And not one single committee guy got to vote on how that resolution was processed. All of it was done by the elected representatives.


Name that guy.

Name one elected representative that hasn't been included in the process, or been excluded from a meeting, or has been isolated from infomation provided to the MEC. When you're finished with your "proof", contact the Department of Labor. They'll be interested.

Your assertion is bovine excrement.


You keep repeating that which is false. Why? Is this what ninjas do? But I again compliment you on your selection of screen name, you're trying to be as effective as Carl Spackler was at Bushwood.

Why did I take you off my ignore list?:rolleyes:

Happy New Year everyone. Did we really have a guy call in sick to make himself legal for greenslips ? and is he really associated with the DPA ? Can you spell unethical.

Where do you find the LM-2 report? thanks

Happy New Year to you too.

I don't pretend to be an expert on our PWA, but I didn't think calling in sick made you any more or less eligible for greenslip flying.

If the person even exists, he's either associated with DPA or DALPA. But slowplay won't release the name of the guy or even PM you the name. Sounds like yet another slowplay authored smear campaign.

Can you spell: Let's find out if it's even true first?

Carl

I completely agree that it's not ethical... if that's what that person did. But how do you know he/she wasn't legitimately sick, and then after feeling better, decided to throw in a greenslip?

I'm not an ALPA fan, but I find it disingenuous of Slowplay to cast aspersions on someone associated with DPA after ALPA's abysmal performance related with the whole FPL issue and ensuing cover-up.

ALPA won't make their profligate spending public but have no problem making accusations about others.

I don't jump into this ring very often, but let's not judge what someone may or may not have done with their sick time - without the facts, which we will never have.

I agree that scenario you guys are describing sounds a little fishy, but:


1. It may have never happened

2. If it did play out like that, none of us can say without a doubt, that said pilot was not sick when he called in sick. I'm not naive, but I will alway give the benefit of the doubt to my fellow pilots, who are largely an ethical group. There may be an average "sick profile" but it takes outliers on both sides to create that average. I'll choose to believe that guys are sick when they say they're sick. Enough said.

3. Let's let the CPO's worry about who's abusing sick time, and not turn on ourselves. Don't call in when you're not sick, and more importantly, DON'T fly when you are. It's very simple. Nothing to hide if you play by the rules.


Not trying to start the whole sick abuse argument again, but when I see an alleged ALPA committee chair (I don't know Slow only going on what Carl mentioned above) condemning a pilot's sick use, it concerns me. I'd expect that my union "brothers and sister's" and especially the union reps/committee chairs/volunteers would side with me if my sick usage were ever called into question. Especially before all the facts were known.

Again, we don't have any of the information on the invidual mentioned above that went on a GS bonanza. Let's stop this witch hunt (of a likely legitimate pilot) before it gets going.

This is such a great example for pilots to see of their MEC committee bureaucrats in action. Slowplay here is trying to sell us on the idea that he did not parse words. But here is what The Manager actually posted:

Notice how he clearly said union officials are still getting C2K pay or better?

Now here is our MEC committee bureaucrat refuting The Manager's statement:

Notice how he states no ALPA Committee folks are getting C2K rates? If you read it quickly, you might not notice that you've just been lied to. You may not notice that he just changed the subject and refuted a statement that was never asserted.

This is just one example of why trying to communicate with people terrified of losing their cushy deal is so difficult. They will stoop to any and all levels to try to hide the truth from you. But try as they might, you can defeat this behavior by reading every single word very carefully. If you do this understanding that their main goal is to hide the truth from you, this stuff will stick out like a sore thumb to you.

Carl

I've edited my original post to change the word "rate" to "pay" with appropriate homage to your word parsing.

Now that we're finsihed with your attempt at deflection, you asked a bunch of questions and I answered them. Your turn, bombthrower.:p

Slow;

Unfortunately, what Carl describes above is how the rank and file have been forced or trained to read our unions letters. We all have to be experts in training at reading between the lines. The sad reality is that we are in a trust but verify situation...a situation caused by our collective bargaining agent.:(

Do not know about that.


However. How do you think people feel about reps that drop two trips for ALPA work to make themselves available for a week long greenslip trip??

Really? :rolleyes:

I note that Carl and the management guy haven't jumped on the twisting of logic and word parsing that occurred after my posts...and neither did you. What part of union letter writing is that?

That's a very hollow protest.

Well, you just named about everyone that wields power and influence in the union and whose influence should not be made suspect by who butters their bread.

Really? IF true, unethical and disgusting.

Folks, here you have the anatomy of a well planned smear campaign. You have sensationalistic, tabloid trash that is worthy of Karl Rove or Rupert Murdoch's best efforts. Lets break down how you make a great smear campaign as evidenced above:

First, The Manager, Carl, 80Knots, OccupyRestSeat, and every other Delta pilot is paid by Delta Air Lines. EVERY ONE. So The Manager starts off with this bolded statement:

as if this is some secret revelation that is scandal worthy and new. Every Delta Pilot is paid by Delta Air Lines, and regardless of whether or not a pilot is covered by 24J, they will ALWAYS BE PAID BY DELTA UNTIL THE COMPANY FOLDS. The only question is whether or not, the union takes your dues money and gives it back to Delta at the end of the month.

So somehow, recklessly wasting your dues money by forcing your union to pay back all the flight pay loss money has become a rallying cry for an independent union. Yes, our plan is to waste your dues money when we don't have to. Why, because your pay will come from Delta Air Lines instead of Delta Air Lines. Awesome plan.

So let's have another shocking headline:

The Sun rose in the East this morning and tonight it will set in the West. Oh the horrors.

That was just the warmup, now we get to the real sleaze ball masterpiece:

In the sleaze ball propaganda world that is called separation and deniability. Not confirmed, see that allows him to walk away from his sleazy attack with no harm no foul. It is not confirmed, but I will throw out the mud anyway, see what sticks.

DPA claims, this is separation. See how The Manager doesn't claim but someone else does. In this case it's not just another person but a vague entity. Who is DPA, what phone number do I call to talk to DPA to confirm this?

See, I could type "Some people say that The Manager steals candy from children." So I am not making an accusation, it is just 'some people". I don't have to offer any proof, any details, any names or dates, I just get a free pass to throw that out there and I never have to take responsibility for it. For some people the mud will stick to The Manager and he gets tarred just the same as if I made a real accusation that I could be held accountable for. (Note: he does not steal candy from children.)

More masterful work. Why "debit cards" and not "credit cards." Everyone knows that an organization the size of ALPA uses corporate credit cards for purchasing and cost accounting so "credit cards" doesn't sound menacing enough. No, they use "debit cards" because that conjures up images of cash payments with no accountability. I mean who really records all the times they buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a debit card. Who could ever track where these mysterious debit cards are being used?

He also talks about them being handed out to "reps" sure, let's pick a large group so we can never nail down a specific allegation, let's just pick "reps" because if your rep denies it, then it could be another rep. You set it up so each pilot would have to call each rep to confirm whether or not they got this "debit card." (Note: this whole "debit card" smear is purely made up fiction, never existed, never will)

Excellent walkback to the deniability stage. There is a reason why hearsay is not allowed in evidence in court rooms, but hey, when you are making a sleaze ball attack, why not? See, The Manager doesn't have to take responsibility for this sleaze, it is just hearsay.

He starts with FACT all bolded as if that proves it. Here is quick fact. C2K pay for a 767 Captain was $268 per hour. At the time he posted this a 767 Captain's pay was $182 per hour. Average pay hours during C2K was 83 hours per pilot. ALPA uses 87 hours for committee members and 92 for the Negotiating Committee which is the only committee that are designated pilots.

C2K: 268 x 83 = $22,244
Average Committee guy : 182 x 87 = $15,834
Average Delta line holder : 182 x 87 = $15,834
Negotiating Committee : 182 x 92 = $16,744

If you count the per diem of $1,000 per month you do not get to C2K pay, no matter how you slice it. It is not a fact it is pure bunk. Plus, does anyone think that working more hours after bankruptcy is a pay raise? Please, someone tell me that the DPA doesn't think we get a pay raise when we work more hours.

It seems to me that DPA has morphed from being an alternative union concept to a sleazy ALPA attack machine. They have this website with no accountability and no ethics and just toss out sleazy trash to attack pilots that work for ALPA.

Many, many years ago, I talked to my LEC rep about this issue. He was a fairly junior, reserve, F/O at the time, I was a mid line holder. He would typically bid a 'blind' move up and get a couple really nasty 4 day trips, which would result in an 85 hr. line, vs. 70 for straight reserve.

THEN...he would drop BOTH the 4 day trips by touching them with 5 days of "ALPA" work....from home. I only know this because I started checking his schedule, after my wife asked me, "Why are you always gone, and he's always at home...and you are wayyy senior to him?"

So one day when I ran into him I asked, "What's up with you and all the trip drops, and 85 hour lines?? How do you claim to represent me, if YOU never have to do MY job and at the same time, you are getting 85hrs. pay, while I'm working my ass off for only 75??"

He said, and I think this attitude is still too prevelant today with some reps, 20 years later:

"It's Win Win! Maybe you, or another pilot, can pick up one of those trips on a greenslip..." :rolleyes:

Talk about losing touch with reality! This guy should have been making 70 a month sitting short call, instead he's making 85 and never flying.

If it were up to me, LEC reps would only get what ever the ALV is every month, and no $1,000 override for a lawn crew, every month.

AND there would be term limits for EVERYONE, Committee chairs especially. 1 term, go back and fly the line and suffer like every one you are supposed to "Represent" and they would all have to fly half a month, every month, and if they were junior, have to sit reserve as well....but that's just me.

Here's their answer, "If it's such a good deal, why didn't YOU run for office?"

And they have a point. It's not a job I would want, even with all the extra money and time at home. So I really can't complain about them and their evil ways, but that's never stopped me! :D I have had some very good friends who were LEC reps, and I know they spend a lot of time on the phone, late at night sometimes, and have to deal with a lot of "Personal Issues" our pilots bring to them.

Listening to their horror stories has pretty much confirmed that I don't want their job, and they can't be representing you in the CPO if they are out flying a 6 day trip. What irks me is that some guys get into an office and then Never Leave.

I think we should turn over all the office guys (Com. Chair especially) at least every 2 years. Until someone steps up to run against and replace them, it's not going to happen. The Committee Chairs are appointed, not elected, and they never leave. That needs to stop.

But since I don't want to do that line of work, I guess I am part of the problem. Once the kids are out of the house, I think I will run for office, that's 2 years off so my wife can still talk me out of it...

Huh?

I'm not following. When a DPA supporter makes some kind of schizophrenic claim, it is obviously on the fringe and does nothing for their cause except maybe harm it....When DALPA, exspecially the MEC Chair, sends out a letter, it must be read between the lines. Why? The only reason I can come up with is that he is playing both sides of the field.

Why are our MEC Chairs letters so different from reading Wendy Morse's or the APA Master Chairs?

Where do you find the LM-2 report? thanks

I look forward to the day you DO run for office. (I'll vote for you as LEC chairman of the new MCO base in a heartbeat) :D In some respects I agree that term limits might be a good thing. Then again, we will run out of pilots that can/will run for office pretty quickly I would think. I still believe that there are a lot of good guys at the LEC/MEC that are doing pretty good work. I think that a lot of this stuff gets blown way way out of proportion by the unhappy few. By and large, I would venture a guess that most pilots are satisfied with the representation they are getting. That is just my opinion. Maybe you are right about the committee chairs and their never ending appointment though. Have you tried submitting a resolution to change that? Maybe YOU can get the ball rolling in that manner. I have no clue as to what it would take to get that sort of thing changed. I do know that nothing will happen on an "anonymous" forum other than to garner the support of those that obviously already support that cause. I dunno.. just spitballing here.. Back to Portlandia.. Happy New Year

Thank you for your support! Now, would you like funding for a Bridge to nowhere in your district?? ;^)

I think there is a percentage of people who are going to whine, no matter what or who is elected, or what gets changed. In my years of volunteering on various committees (No B Scale, Strike, Sched, PBS, etc.) what I have found is, the Delta pilot group, as a group, is pretty lazy and uninvolved. When I once asked a MEC Chairman why that was, he said, "What did you think that rocking chair was for?" And I think he's right. Most Pilots are lazy. I don't know how a few of us slipped through the cracks! That's why I don't think the DPA will have any more success than DALPA. The Silent Majority that always votes Yes is just too lazy to show up and scream NO!


You stuck in PDX? Anything open today? I do miss that place, one of my favorites.

Timbo, I deleted my response - it's just not worth it.

I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.

Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.

How long has the Communications Chair been talking down to us? Seems like 10 years, but it may only be 5...he would be the first one I would replace, and I would have done it two years ago.

On the Term Limit thing? You simply make it a Requirement of being a Delta Pilot, just like paying dues is required under Agency Shop. Hold a Lottery, pull 4 names for each slot, and have an election. If you win, you must serve, but in 2 years you are Free again, having done your part. I think that would motivate the silent majority to wake up and pay attention to what they are actaully voting on!

You'll be back...no one can escape the pull! :D
Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In! SCENE - The Godfather: Part 3 MOVIE (1990) - HD - YouTube