Click on the link below, then in the box "Union Name by Abbreviation" select Airline Pilots Association from the dropdown menu. Then on the bottom from the box "Report Type" select LM-2, then hit submit. When the report list populates, select the last one 000-179 2010 Report.

Organization Query Page (Disclosure)

Carl

.........................

Extremely important points that I've bolded here.

Carl

Another great example for anyone keeping track. Our unelected MEC bureaucrat slowplay here throws out these accusations and swears up and down he didn't parse words. Now he edits his post to change what he swore wasn't word parsing.

You know slowplay, I expect more from my unelected MEC bureaucrats. When Delta management pays you your 92 hours flight pay loss per month plus 1,000 stipend plus expenses, I'm starting to think maybe they're not getting their money's worth. I know the line pilots sure aren't.

Carl

This place will drag you back.. just like it does me. It is like crack (or so I hear) I would love to sign off this place and never come back.. but it keeps calling and calling...

Indentured servitude??? I admire the thought.. but I think we would get really really weak "participants".

Went through the LM-2 for the last few hours slowplay. Compensation and expense reimbursement is listed for all the officers (title only), but I couldn't find any breakdown for "volunteers" and others based on the "individual" as you state above. What schedule of the LM-2 does that appear? For example, where on the LM-2 could I find out how much flight pay loss was paid to a member of the MEC's Strategic Planning Committee? Or Negotiating Committee? Or a DALPA volunteer that I know by name?

Carl

Translation: You're not really a union member if you're not ALPA. DPA support disqualifies you as someone who believes in unionism and as such, you're not entitled to PAC money from a "union" like ALPA if you decide to run for public office.

It certainly isn't the Detroit Pilots Association despite you MEC bureaucrats constantly calling it that. The majority of DPA members are now ATL. Imagine that!

What was the breakdown of that vote to kill the flight pay loss resolution slowplay? Where can we find out exactly how each LEC member voted in the process to follow or kill the fligth pay loss resolution?

Carl

I won't say their names because they've asked me not to. 2 current and 4 former LEC members (all known to me personally) have stated this is exactly what happens to anyone who tries to upset the MEC apple cart. You are lied to, "mushroomed" and isolated from key information. This is done so you look uninformed at LEC meetings in front of your constituents. But more importantly, it's an example to the other LEC members of "what will happen to you" if behave badly as defined by our top-down MEC. I would encourage anyone else with friends who are current and former LEC reps to ask them this very question. Hear it for yourself.

None of this behavior is illegal under labor law. Unfortunately, there's nothing against unprofessional and retaliatory behavior against members your own administration.

Does name calling actually work in your unelected MEC bureaucrat meetings slowplay?

I thought your ignore list was only for those LEC reps who don't agree with how you unelected bureaucrats wield power?

Carl

You're not paying homage to my word parsing. By editing your post, you're admitting that you did parse and spin...exactly like I said you did.

Read above.

Carl

If it were up to me, LEC reps would only get what ever the ALV is every month, and no $1,000 override for a lawn crew, every month.


Timbo,

You are aware that your "LEC REPS" do not receive any sort of override whatsoever correct? They do not get trip drops for any LEC business. Representing pilots in the CP office? Off days. LEC meetings? Off days. In the larger bases you have Reps that are going to the airport 16 days a month to fly and then 8 or 9 days a month doing representations etc. This work does not get done by magic. I am sure there will be a flood of candidates for the election next year to take advantage of this really good deal. I hope that anyone who is considering running whether it be DALPA or DPA, will follow a large base rep around for a month and see if it is really such a sweet deal that some make it out to be.... If you value your free time, don't do it.

Translation: "My worn out DALPA drivel is not working, so I quit."
and/or
"DALPA won't deliver on C2012--I better take cover and submit my application to management."

Good riddance. The only thing tiresome and redundant are your asinine, company-funded-talking-points, including "commuting is a choice" at Delta.

You are wrong. They do get ALPA trip drops. I agree they work hard and if you value free time don't do it, but they do get ALPA drops.

A few people on here try to refute a barrage of DPA half truths and lies and he's called asinine ? I like listening to both sides, I can make up my own mind. I don't believe all of what ALPA put's out but I really dislike the DPA supporters on here that attack anything that even sounds like it's pro ALPA with usually nothing but BS. If this group is representative of the DPA then they will never get my support or vote. I'm going to try and quit this addiction also,it's become very predictable and boring.

If DALPA produces a weak TA for this next contract, you may very well get out voted. No pressure DALPA, $35 million in dues each year is at stake!

Some big numbers in the report!

Nope, you are wrong, they don't get FPL for any of the LEC business Ron mentioned, which is what takes up most of their time. If you doubt me, call your rep and find out. They get paid what they hold and what they bid, just like every other line pilot. If they get FPL, it's for MEC business, such as an MEC meeting or lounge visit. Most of the work they do they do without any compensation.

Hmm, awful lot of ALPA trip drops on their schedules for it all to be "MEC" business.

Well then, man up and give them a call. Let us know what you find out.

Which "DPA half-truths and lies" are you referring to? To the extent that any exist, I'd certainly be interested to hear what they are--and would happily endeavor to join you in exposing them, should you be correct. Can you please name one?

A question for you: Why would anyone acting as a spokesman for DALPA (such as Pineapple Guy) parrot the company's "commuting is a choice" line? How does that further our goal of improving our QOL?

More to the point: If DALPA publicly rolls over for the company on matters such as this, what must they be sandbagging behind closed doors? :confused:

DALPA's track record of obstructionism, obfuscation, and a complete lack of transparency only furthers one's doubt.

So will DPA establish a PAC if they ever take the reins? I can only imagine how much access THAT war chest will buy. (Disclaimer: I give not one red cent to PACs because I believe they are the fundamental reason that our country is as ****ed up politically as it is)

I don't know about your reps but mine have been in the lounge constantly for the last two month answering questions. I have known several reps over the years. They work far harder then any line pilot ever does. Most burn out on the work schedule and go back to the line for a vacation. If there is a issue with pay for our Dalpa reps and other workers its that we don't pay them enough. I am lazy enough that I would not consider union work for 150 hours pay per month.

The absolute pinnacle of ALPA arrogance. "Here at ALPA, we work so much harder than you lazy slobs can ever begin to fathom."

To make a statement like that...wow. I know it's hard for you to believe, but some of us have other jobs or other circumstances outside of flying that (gasp) might entail work. Sometimes, even hard work.

For you to make such a sweeping (and utterly bogus) generalization like that only reinforces how out-of-touch the DALPA bureaucracy has grown.

Your logic chain is a non-sequitur.

I took Sailings post as Reps work harder than line pilots work (for Delta air lines)...While his premise is not sound, he did not qualify the statement as work in total.

He isn't part of the DALPA bureaucracy, just a DALPA defender.

Is it your premise that standing up a new union will not require work - at the same level of the "DALPA bureaucracy" or is this simply a stone throwing contest? Do you hate your career so much that you just want to burn everything down?

I want ALPA gone yesterday, but honestly, YOU do not represent my interests. I get Carl and agree with almost everything he says, but you are far too fringe for my taste. Your rhetoric is hollow.

I was curious so I looked at one of my LEC rep's schedules for the past five months. There was only (1) ALPA drop on that in five months. The rest of it was reserve days, trips or vacation.

And a fair amount of the flying that he did have (his plane is overstaffed, it wasn't a ton) had was YS, so it's not like he's trying to avoid work. In fact, he ended up with a long trip that had him flying from before Christmas and until after New Year's. Sounds cushy. :rolleyes:

Good grief.

Spot on post... occupy is so blinded by DPA stuff that he can't see anything else. He is to DPA what he hates about DALPA... ah irony.

I think my reps work very hard. And I think they should get paid trip drops when they are doing union business. I was just pointing out that they do get drops.

IMHO, a fellow member who takes money from our membership and refuses to repay it in good faith fails the criteria of FAR 61.153 (c). They should not even be working here.

A resolution needs to be put forward to recover the money due Delta pilots.

Of course it is fact...in your world (and Carl's world I suppose); and no matter how much sense the rest of Carl's post makes, it is these emotional, Ad Hominem attacks that is so detestable and reminiscent of the USAPA movement, that assures the ultimate failure of DPA....of course, that is just my opinion (not a "fact")

No it's not, the United States Government is.

So is the following statement true or false?

"You are aware that your "LEC REPS" do not receive any sort of override whatsoever correct? They do not get trip drops for any LEC business. Representing pilots in the CP office? Off days. LEC meetings? Off days. In the larger bases you have Reps that are going to the airport 16 days a month to fly and then 8 or 9 days a month doing representations etc. This work does not get done by magic."

Reps do get trip drops, but not for any of the above which probably takes up most of their time.

Simply stating that Reps are entitled to trip drops ignores the overwhelming percent of their time they spend representing you on their off time when they are not entitled to trip drops as your LEC rep.

+++ a bunch

Edit: Eh, Elvis said it better....

During peacetime Delta is the world's largest consumer of jet fuel, edging out the Department of Defense. So even a small move in oil prices has an impact on the bottom line of a company that flies at least 700 of its own large and regional airplanes and counts more than 1,400 aircraft under its companywide umbrella.

Read more here: How financial speculation in oil prices ruins airline profits | McClatchy

Pedantic...good SAT word! Obstruse, erudite, doctrinaire, ostentatious. +1 to Justdoinmyjob for vocab use!

It's good that you've unmasked yourself as a far left guy. Gives great context to your opinions.

As has been stated many times, it's perfectly appropriate that line pilots for Delta are paid by Delta. We are working on behalf of Delta. When unelected MEC bureaucrats such as yourself and slowplay work "on behalf of Delta pilots", you're also paid by Delta. That's the problem. You should be paid by the people you're supposed to be representing. It might help you move away from constant apologies for whatever management does.

And you have the gall to screech about others putting forth a smear campaign? Do you even read what you write? Or are you too busy with hating Karl Rove and Rupert Murdoch? :rolleyes:

As has been stated many times, the fix to this is take all money from flight pay loss paid by the company and give it back to the pilot group as increased salary. Then our dues would increase the exact same amount so that our union guys would still get their flight pay loss, but they would get it from dues money...not management. Next straw man argument...

Carl

Hilarious! This is the guy that just got through screaming about a smear campaign. Good times!!

Your martyrdom complex is making you look foolish. Debit card/credit card is a meaningless distinction. One has no worse connotation than the other. The problem is poorly accounted for expenses by union officials.

Carl

Uh.. I disagree with this in a sense. If DALPA were paying representatives, you and others would be squawking about the amount of work that you are getting for your money. I think that is a slippery slope too Carl.

You mean the kind of hearsay you keep spewing that DPA is really all about overturning the SLI?

What's pure bunk is your blatantly false premise. Let's do the math again shall we? 70 hours per month at the C2K rate of $268 per hour = 18,760. 92 hours per month at the current rate of $182 per hour = 16,744. Plus the 1,000 stipend (which is tax free) = 17,744. This is a 1,016 dollar difference. Add in the credit cards/debit cards for expenses and you get very close to C2K pay...which is EXACTLY what TheManager said. I know you will call this more sleazy Karl Rove propaganda, but the truth is what it is.

Have fun with the rest of your ALPA funded/flight pay loss funded smear campaign dude. You'll make the far left very proud.

Carl