Delta posts $765M profit in 3Q
10-26-2011 | 11:10 PM
#71
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: airplane driver
Restoration, however deserved, is not the right stratedgy/rhetoric IMO. We should stick to SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas, SWA pay rates plus reasonable premius for small narrowbody planes and up from there and SWA scope and work rules...plus a reasonable premium.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Preach on sister, but I somehow doubt that management could give a rat's patootie what you say or think on this board. You might as well save your energy because come 01-01-13, I'm afraid you're going to rise and shine only to find things as they currently are since that's where management wants them and intends to keep them.
Good luck.
10-27-2011 | 04:16 AM
#72
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Restoration, however deserved, is not the right stratedgy/rhetoric IMO. We should stick to SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas, SWA pay rates plus reasonable premius for small narrowbody planes and up from there and SWA scope and work rules...plus a reasonable premium.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
We will never see the survey results. We will never see the opener. We will never even see a summary of the opener. We will never see a transcript of our forced negotiations with the unions of our direct regional competitors over OUR scope language.
When we see our incredibly weak Tentative Agreement, we will have to vote NO or be happy with being far below every SWA pilot for many years to come. Wish we weren't in this position...but we are.
Carl
10-27-2011 | 04:22 AM
#73
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Preach on sister, but I somehow doubt that management could give a rat's patootie what you say or think on this board. You might as well save your energy because come 01-01-13, I'm afraid you're going to rise and shine only to find things as they currently are since that's where management wants them and intends to keep them.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Carl
10-27-2011 | 05:12 AM
#74
At home on the maddog!
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 0
From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Restoration, however deserved, is not the right stratedgy/rhetoric IMO. We should stick to SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas, SWA pay rates plus reasonable premius for small narrowbody planes and up from there and SWA scope and work rules...plus a reasonable premium.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
It's six of one, half dozen of the other. SWA + "reasonable premiums" is a big chunk of the way toward restoration. Nothing wrong with restoration being our objective, but "SWA+" is the 800 lb. gorilla in terms of effective strategy. Too bad it's not being utilized.
12-27-2011 | 08:43 PM
#75
Don't want to participate
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 0
From: 737 Left Seat
Good news, it looks like the total number of SWA pilots has finally been corrected on the TransStats site. It was in error by almost 1000 pilots. Actual total for 2010 was 5564, vs the previous reported 6423. The Airline Data Project data that is supposedly from MIT is now officially garbage.
12-27-2011 | 11:42 PM
#76
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Good news, it looks like the total number of SWA pilots has finally been corrected on the TransStats site. It was in error by almost 1000 pilots. Actual total for 2010 was 5564, vs the previous reported 6423. The Airline Data Project data that is supposedly from MIT is now officially garbage.
This is how far we've got to go just to equal SWAPA's pay scale...not to mention their incredible scope language. DALPA??
Carl
12-28-2011 | 06:03 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
From: 330 FO
This is exactly correct and what I've been preaching for months now. It is the very best overall strategy we have without any doubt. But I'm afraid our current union has already been badly compromised in some fashion by management and our union's leaders have a strong incentive to give management what THEY want.
We will never see the survey results. We will never see the opener. We will never even see a summary of the opener. We will never see a transcript of our forced negotiations with the unions of our direct regional competitors over OUR scope language.
When we see our incredibly weak Tentative Agreement, we will have to vote NO or be happy with being far below every SWA pilot for many years to come. Wish we weren't in this position...but we are.
Carl
We will never see the survey results. We will never see the opener. We will never even see a summary of the opener. We will never see a transcript of our forced negotiations with the unions of our direct regional competitors over OUR scope language.
When we see our incredibly weak Tentative Agreement, we will have to vote NO or be happy with being far below every SWA pilot for many years to come. Wish we weren't in this position...but we are.
Carl
but I think you're spot-on, here.
12-28-2011 | 06:13 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,209
Likes: 57
From: Legacy FO
Personally, I think some of these old DAL pilots are too far out of touch with what has happened around them. "SWA pilots make more than us? No way!" ... I've heard that exact comment a couple of times when I've talked to my captains about it. Some actually down right didn't believe me.
I think there is systemic denial going on. And of course, I believe some are being paid off by management.
But I can tell you that most of the guys I have flown with are wanting a BIG increase in pay (more than I asked for in the survey). Many of them mentioned scope too. So with that, I feel somewhat positive going forward.
I think there is systemic denial going on. And of course, I believe some are being paid off by management.
But I can tell you that most of the guys I have flown with are wanting a BIG increase in pay (more than I asked for in the survey). Many of them mentioned scope too. So with that, I feel somewhat positive going forward.
12-28-2011 | 06:21 AM
#79
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
Personally, I think some of these old DAL pilots are too far out of touch with what has happened around them. "SWA pilots make more than us? No way!" ... I've heard that exact comment a couple of times when I've talked to my captains about it. Some actually down right didn't believe me.
I think there is systemic denial going on. And of course, I believe some are being paid off by management.
But I can tell you that most of the guys I have flown with are wanting a BIG increase in pay (more than I asked for in the survey). Many of them mentioned scope too. So with that, I feel somewhat positive going forward.
I think there is systemic denial going on. And of course, I believe some are being paid off by management.
But I can tell you that most of the guys I have flown with are wanting a BIG increase in pay (more than I asked for in the survey). Many of them mentioned scope too. So with that, I feel somewhat positive going forward.
Fatboy, you forget who your collective bargaining agent is. You wont see the survey results. Everything will take place out of your view.
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