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Old 10-07-2006, 02:18 PM   #1  
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Default United Pilots - Industry Laughing Stock?

Consider this, in the last 5 years United Pilots have gone from leading the industry in pay and benefits to trailing the industry in almost every measure of compensation and pay.

Here is a partial list:
  • 50%+ pay cuts
  • Loss of the A Plan
  • Paying your own medical and dental (implied additional paycut)
  • Severely Diminished QWL
  • No TTWOF (trip trade with open flying)
  • Zero schedule flexibility
  • No vacation drops
  • 1.5% pay raises, losing ground to inflation every day
  • UAX deadheads, but no way to track pay or FARs
  • Strict disciplinary mentality from management
  • AMS program; if you are too sick to fly - prove it or no pay
  • Record number of grievances
  • Record number of System Board of Adjustments
  • 5 furloughee calls to get one pilot to accept recall
  • Increasing lack of respect for Captain’s Authority
  • Second-guessing of pilots by EVERY employee group
  • Print your own paperwork but get the fuel load to the fueler 45 minutes before departure (i.e. Flight plan in 15 minutes?!)
  • Come to work in uniform or be treated like a potential terrorist
  • More deferred maint. stickers per day per airplane as the fleet dies on the vine and no new orders in sight
  • CEO Tilton: Consolidation, Consolidation, Consolidation
  • (Meaning: Mo’ money, mo’ money, mo’ money for me)
  • CEO Tilton: Foreign Ownership is good, we want it, we like it and we want the Government to get it for us
  • (Meaning: Mo’ money, mo’ money, mo’ money for me)

The list goes on and on....

So UAL pilots have given away their contract, yet so many UAL pilots bend over backwards to help make up for their employers complete lack of planning.

Why do UAL pilots:
  • Pickup extra time, while furloughees wait on the sidelines.
  • Waive any aspect of their tattered contract.
  • Still think it's their duty to save UAL, even though the carrier has been out of bankruptcy for almost a year.

We all have friends and aquatences at UAL so the next time you talk to them, ask them the tough questions about WTF they think they're doing as a union.

Most UAL pilots are pretty good dudes and dudettes and my intention with this post is not to slam them. However, as a friend of several UAL pilots, it's time for "tough love" and to remind them that a individual mercenary attitude is a career dead end. UAL pilots are always welcome on my jump seat, but be prepared for a polite observation that unless the group mentality changes UAL pilots will never pull themselves back to a industry leading [contract] status.
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Old 10-07-2006, 02:42 PM   #2  
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And to think the scumbag CEO gets a 40% boost, what a shame
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Old 10-07-2006, 05:26 PM   #3  
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Laughing stock? I think that is a stretch. You must be an ex-ACA or err Independence Pilot. Half the garbage you wrote is not true. I know, because I work there. You did get one thing right, United Pilots did lead the industry at one time. Who knows who will lead it 5 or 10 years from now, it could very well be United...or not.
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Old 10-07-2006, 05:42 PM   #4  
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Until we have walked in someone else's shoes, we should be slow to criticise. I jumpseated many, many times in United in the past 3 years and was treated almost without exception with respect and as a fellow professional. I knew they were getting slapped around by their management, through no fault of their own, and my sympathy and humble manner got me to where I needed to go every time, often in First Class.

I am pulling for United, if for no other reason than that they treated me well. They have not gone on internet forums and posted absurd accusations about how we are dragging the industry down.
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Old 10-07-2006, 05:56 PM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saab2000 View Post
Until we have walked in someone else's shoes, we should be slow to criticise. I jumpseated many, many times in United in the past 3 years and was treated almost without exception with respect and as a fellow professional. I knew they were getting slapped around by their management, through no fault of their own, and my sympathy and humble manner got me to where I needed to go every time, often in First Class.

I am pulling for United, if for no other reason than that they treated me well. They have not gone on internet forums and posted absurd accusations about how we are dragging the industry down.
Well said....
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Old 10-07-2006, 06:02 PM   #6  
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Low and Slow, how about letting the United guys worry about their own contract, and you worry about yours. They did what they felt like they had to. Plenty of hard choices were made by all UAL employees over the last few years. Nothing they did makes them a laughingstock. Would you respect them more if they held their ground, but United liquidated?

Any of you that ride on my jumpseat are welcome; rest assured that I won't make any "polite observations" about the choices you had to make.
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Old 10-07-2006, 06:36 PM   #7  
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Laughing stock? I think that is a stretch. You must be an ex-ACA or err Independence Pilot. Half the garbage you wrote is not true. I know, because I work there. You did get one thing right, United Pilots did lead the industry at one time.
You're right laughing stock may be a stretch, but is was meant to be a hypothetical question and not an accusation, thus the question mark. Like I said, I have respect for the UAL pilot's I know (including the one who forwarded that list).

As an outsider looking in, I find it unconcienable that with furloughed pilots on the street, a UAL pilot wearing a union pin could waive the contract, pick up extra time (you call it jr/sr manning?), or go that extra mile to (i.e. bend the contract to the companies favor) to accomplish the mission.

Speaking of the things that I didn't get right, that list was reportedly authored by one of the UAL MEC members. I thought the MEC might have a handle on the conditions at the airline, maybe not.

This week your CEO and VP negotiated a contract extension that included pension enhancements and a healthy annual raise while pilots continue to eat it. If your not ****ed off at that, your not paying attention.
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Old 10-07-2006, 06:47 PM   #8  
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Would you respect them more if they held their ground, but United liquidated?
Absolutely not, I agree that they did what they had to do, or the MEC felt they needed to do, for the airline to survive.

My disbelief centers on the present. Almost a year out of bankruptcy, it's reported that many UAL pilots still give away the contract like the sky is falling. The idea apparently is that if they waive this or that, the company will survive. When Q3 earnings are reported, it's estimated that UAL will be sitting on over $5 Billion in cash (up almost $3 Billion in a year) most of it on the backs of labor. The CEO took a healthy raise, and talks almost singularly about mergers.

Your advise to let UAL pilots take care of themselves is sound, although I must say that I don't understand the group mentality over there.
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Old 10-07-2006, 08:34 PM   #9  
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Would you respect them more if they held their ground, but United liquidated?
.
theres is a certain point where pride takes over and i say id rather take everyone down with me than let the other person win, i wonder just how close some united pilots were to that breaking point

its gets harder when you have a family tho
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Old 10-08-2006, 05:27 AM   #10  
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You're right laughing stock may be a stretch, but is was meant to be a hypothetical question and not an accusation, thus the question mark. Like I said, I have respect for the UAL pilot's I know (including the one who forwarded that list).

As an outsider looking in, I find it unconcienable that with furloughed pilots on the street, a UAL pilot wearing a union pin could waive the contract, pick up extra time (you call it jr/sr manning?)

In THIS "Association", that is "ops normal" .
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