"...you can do like Bob Lavender, Bill Berman, Ron Coalson, Chuck Henry, and Bill Rathbun, and you can pick up your marbles and go home. How can you quit the union, and turn around and preach about unity?"

TonyC,

You wrote the above statement to me on another thread. To avoid the clutter there, I am writing to you here:

1. I would ask you to do as I have done and put your full name and qualifications on your postings so that I can better understand your experience. Right now, to me, you are just a shadowy character with no history or credibility. As Bill Berman said to a critic, "I've got a 35 year pin and I've got a battle pin, what have you got?"

2. There are four posters on my "ignore" list. You are not one of them because you do not resort to profanity. I kind of like having you write because it give readers an opportunity to compare your writings to mine. They can make the decision about the content and quality.

3. I provided you with the names of several of the most valiant pilots in the profession (I don't include myself in that description), all with tremendous experience and willingness to fight the real battles. Yet, you describe their decisions to resign from ALPA as "mind boggling." I would guess that they would describe you as conspicuously naive.

Mind you, these are the people that gave you the lifestyle and salary that you enjoy; not Dave Webb, not Wally Huggins, and not the FedEx MEC--these individuals are simply riding the wave created by the true warriors. As you know, it cost Chuck Henry about 500K in lost compensation to go on strike for two years, then start over several times before ending up at FedEx. That is far more "dues" than you will ever pay. Now, all he asks is for the ability to fly past 60 in order to support his family. It is time for reciprocity, not criticism. Who do you think is going to fight the next war for you if this is the treatment they get?

The answer is, of course, no one. That is why, in spite of all the union threats, no wars are being fought.

4. How can you quit the union, and turn around and preach about unity?

I suggest that you read the posts from other pilots, especially the new one titled, "United Pilots - Industry Laughing Stock?

Comment: I find it unconcienable that with furloughed pilots on the street, a UAL pilot wearing a union pin could waive the contract, pick up extra time (you call it jr/sr manning?)

Following comment: In THIS "Association", that is "ops normal"

ALPA membership has little or nothing to do with Unity. Many of the posts on this board, including some of your own, I think, relate to the fact that this is a highly divided profession and nothing is being done to fix it.

Two years ago, AFL-CIO membership was decimated when five of its largest unions "quit." They claimed that the AFL-CIO is dying because of its emphasis on politics rather than membership initiative. The group of "quitters" included the nation's largest and fastest-growing union, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), led by Andrew Stern. When asked by Leslie Stahl if it wouldn't be better to create change from the "inside," Stern replied, "I have tried to get it to change from the inside for ten years, and nothing has worked." Thus, there is now a new federation calld "Change to Win." I like that title.

Likewise, ALPA is entrenched in the past. It has an LEC system that is ineffecient and ineffective in dealing with modern problems, and it has officials that appear worried worried only about their own pocketbooks and positions. I believe that many pilots understand this and will strongly embrace an ethical approach to unionism where fairness across the board, junior to senior, becomes the rule. Like a breath of fresh air.

I am more patient than Andrew Stern. I have been watching our professional fiasco develop from the "inside" for 28 years. I have written about it and the solutions extensively, and and each attempt to publish has been thwarted by ALPA officials. I am not putting up with this juvenile behavior any longer. You may not have the hands-on experience to understand this yet, but I and others do. ALPA is the enemy of Unity and it is time for a big change.

Now, please identify yourself. It will make you accountable for the things you write. And, maybe we can make some progress.

Bob

 

Bob,
You are clearly an articulate guy, have opinions which you share freely, and are entitled to do so on an open forum. What you don't have is credibility due to your non member status. As a patriotic American; when you vote for leadership and they are not elected and than that leadership acts in a way contrary to what you think is right and best for your country, you don't disown your country. You work withing the system, convince others, within the system and than accept the will of the majority and elected leadership. Its the same in a union.

 

Hmm, work within the system?? Why did the guys that signed some document in Philadelphia in 1776 not agree with your logic?

 

foxhunter...

They did try and work within the system...that effort failed..they didn't quit and go home, they started a new system, we call it the United States of America. Maybe you can resurrect the FPA or another such animal instead of taking your ball and going home.

JMO

Pilot7576

 

Yeah, right. ALPA is broken here at FDX. That's why we got such a crummy T/A compared to the two that FPA (interest based, cost neutral bargaining) delivered.

At least Foxhunter rejoined.

I've never seen Lavender's name associated with any committee work nor have I ever seen it as a candidate for any elected union position.

 

Amen.........lets not forget that the Majority of ALPA spoke.

The Change is going to happen eventually anyway. I doubt seriously that ALPA can speed it up or slow it down.

Put your money where your mouth is Mr. Lavender.

 

Bob,

Why does knowing who Tony C is lend credibility to his positions. You either agree with them on their own merit or you don't. You seem to spout off about your own opinion asking lots of questions but rarely deliver answers when you are asked a question. A little while ago you stated that a pilot should be able to fly as long as they were competent. I asked you to give me your method of measuring competence and defend how your method is not just as arbitrary as age 60. Still waiting for a reply. Dc said it well, when you quit the union you gave up part of your voice. If congress doesn't act in time for you are you going to stop paying taxes? Maybe competence could be measured by how quickly you are able to upgrade to Captian? Isn't that what companies are hiring, future Captains?

 

"Maybe competence could be measured by how quickly you are able to upgrade to Captian? Isn't that what companies are hiring, future Captains?"

Game, set and match!!! Nicely done pinseeker. You just nailed a hole in one. My personal preference is to ignore those that ignore their obligations yet reap the rewards of others dues money and hard work. Freeloaders have no say so their opinion is worth what they pay. Nada, zippy, zero, zilch. Why a dude that can't upgrade to the left seat wants to pull gear past Age 60 is beyond me. Anyway, just let him and his non member buddies cry in the beer our contract bonus will buy for them. But, if you can't ignore them, at least point out what they are really all about and you did that nicely.

Tony C, don't give NMB (NonMemberBob) the time of day until he pays his way! You owe him exactly what he gives us...nothing!

 

Actually, I do answer virtually all questions. The answers are in the body of the texts that I have written. However, I did consider your questions legitimate and I specifically answered almost all on 9/23:

The pilots who crossed the picket line at CAL are all ALPA members now. They were brought into the fold with no penance on their part nor any abridgement of their seniority. They were brought in for their dues dollars and now you and they are "brothers." You are on the same side. On the other hand, some longtime CAL pilots such as striker, Jim Personett, have resigned from ALPA because of its breach of ethics. Thanks for asking.

In my opinion, there should be no age restriction on flying commercially; individual competence and capability should be the rule. A change to 65 should be only temporary until the lid can come off all together. In the long run, this is healthy for our society in every way as long as people have an option in how to run their own lives.

I have been writing about the impending Age 60 train wreck at FedEx for 10 years and have always been opposed to the Rule. The ideal situation is to have the OPTION to fly to 65 just as ALPA carrier, Air Canada Jazz, is currently doing. They may retire at 55 with a penalty, 60 with no penalty, and fly to 65 if they desire to put more money in their Plans. This is the best model as it permits people to choose which option is best for them, personally, given the changes in the industry over the last 28 years. Unfortunately, we are stuck in the past and this is causing significant disunity within the profession.

ALPA's inability to deal with the retirement problem on several levels is symbolic of its general failure to perform....

Pilot competence should be measured as it is now. I do not see the need for change. Some countries already have no age limit and things seem to be working out fairly well. The medical matter is really a red herring that diverts attention from the principle of the matter: Age discrimination.

Thank you for the opportunity to answer again.

Bob

 

Bob,

Let's see...Tony C....probably Tony with a last name starts with C...recently in a captain's upgrade class for the -10 (his info...not me spilling the beans..).

You are a real swift one...can't figure out who he might be...

My name is Aaron. My locker is 3135. Please skip putting any more of your crap in it. Fox--your locker is not far from mine. If I see you there I'll enjoy having a cup of coffee with you--even if you are an ornery old cuss and I'm on the other side of the age 60 rule battle. One of us will be ****ed when age 60 stays/goes, but until then you are at least working within the organization. You *****--but you pay your dues. I do appreciate your change of heart--even if we find ourselves on opposite sides of the arguments sometime.