View Poll Results: WIll the merger happen?
Happen? It's probably half done already...
61
46.21%
It's probably going to happen eventually...
32
24.24%
Maybe, but the deal is filled with difficult to overcome challanges. We'll see.
32
24.24%
Not a chance..
7
5.30%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll
US/AMR Merger poll
04-24-2012, 07:11 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
[QUOTE=DashGirl;1175204]Just curious what the insane masses around here think in terms of statistics:[/QUO
-1 right now...possibly after BK... AA MGT intent on trashing AA contracts befoe anything else happens IMHO.
-1 right now...possibly after BK... AA MGT intent on trashing AA contracts befoe anything else happens IMHO.
04-24-2012, 07:32 PM
#3
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by DashGirl
Just curious what the insane masses around here think in terms of statistics:
But as an insane ass myself, I enjoy polls.
I mean mass.
04-24-2012, 08:01 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by DashGirl
I think one has to have an element of insanity to their personal psyche in order to stomach this industry. I certainly qualify as plain nutz...Just not a danger to myself or anyone else...
Plain nuts, or plane nuts? I like plane nuts.
Although I know not everybody does. This one girl beside me on a deadhead once was allergic to peanuts. So the FA offered her other stuff, then turned to me. I was wearing my earphones and missed their conversation and so I just smiled and said "Peanuts please."
I'll think about moving that to the tool thread.
04-24-2012, 08:29 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think..and this is a bit of a "conspiracy" styled thought, but I think the whole DAL/US slot swap was a precursor for this thing and DAL may very well be in on all of it. US had to divest from the NYC market to get over the one huge anti-trust issue that might have stopped this merger. I also think that AMR mgt. was on board from the beginning despite the Red Herring comments they have made to the press about wanting to remain a sole carrier. DP will probably make those guys twice as rich as they already are by buying them out and the whole industry then wins with higher fares...
This is just my "conspiracy theory" but big corporations love to do this kind of stuff...
This is just my "conspiracy theory" but big corporations love to do this kind of stuff...
Last edited by DashGirl; 04-24-2012 at 08:45 PM.
04-26-2012, 11:29 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by DashGirl
I think..and this is a bit of a "conspiracy" styled thought, but I think the whole DAL/US slot swap was a precursor for this thing and DAL may very well be in on all of it. US had to divest from the NYC market to get over the one huge anti-trust issue that might have stopped this merger. I also think that AMR mgt. was on board from the beginning despite the Red Herring comments they have made to the press about wanting to remain a sole carrier. DP will probably make those guys twice as rich as they already are by buying them out and the whole industry then wins with higher fares...
This is just my "conspiracy theory" but big corporations love to do this kind of stuff...
This is just my "conspiracy theory" but big corporations love to do this kind of stuff...
Last Thursday when all this broke out in the news with the unions signing a CBA I was wondering if this whole thing was fabricated by AMR and US management.
Think about it. 6 months ago a merger with US was worst case if you were an APA pilot. Now it is best case.
What brought APA to this? CH11 / a move to void current contracts through the court.
It is plausible that management at AMR/US knew APA and other labor would never be on board for a merger... Unless, a merger became a better option for APA and the other labor groups.
Fabricated through reverse psychology.
04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,483
There is a US Airways/American F/A facebook page now. This is from that forum. It sounds like they plan on voting for a joint contract after single carrier certification.
This came from the AA/USair Flight Attendant Facebook page this evening. I thought it was a thorough explanation of the deal that has been offered to the AA flight Attendants, and in turn the USAirways flight attendants, if this merger were ever to go through.....
Cliff Jones
I just spent the afternoon being briefed about this potential deal with USAir. IMA Base Chair Randy Trautman and Jena Hopkins spent about 3 hours going through the proposal and answering questions. I learned a lot about the process and what... may come next. The details of the Bridge Agreement with USAir can be found at APFA.ORG. This email will attempt to explain how this arrangement came about.
American Airlines has not budged one dollar off of the $230 Million in concessions that it is demanding from us. Any statement to the contrary by the company is a lie. If you have wondered why negotiations updates haven't been as frequent lately it's because the company hasn't negotiated, and there has been nothing to report.
Randy explained that every time APFA's negotiators tried to suggest different approaches, Taylor Vaughn and AA's team would steer the group back to the $230 million number. American's business plan , if you can call it a plan, is simple: slash employee pay and benefits to reduce cost. They have no plans that will generate revenue. The term sheet is the first and last offer. We would have to live with this term sheet for 6 years. We all know the way AA chooses to have protracted negotiations (currently 4 years with this negotiations) so we could be looking at being stuck with the company's term sheet for at least the next 10 years.
Randy stated that until a couple of weeks ago things were very bleak for us. It was explained that the Bankruptcy judge really doesn't care about what we gave in 2003 under the restructuring, what our pay is, where we layover, our duty rigs, etc....He only cares about the company having a plan to exit bankruptcy that will work for the creditors. It is not his job to look at all of our union contracts and decide what is and isn't fair. The details aren't important; we can try to argue our case in court, but in the last 33 bankruptcy cases where companies asked the judge to abrogate (throw out) contracts, 33 were thrown out. The gavel will drop and our contract will be wiped out instantly; the term sheet would then be our new contract.
Then only a couple of weeks ago, APFA President Laura Glading called the negotiators and the APFA Board of Directors to a meeting to let them know that USAir had contacted her and the other unions on AA's property. The CEO, Doug Parker, had an offer that was much better than AA's term sheet and wanted to discuss it. Union officers from all three union were privately briefed and presented a business plan that INCREASES REVENUES AND DOESN'T SLASH COSTS on the backs of labor. The meetings were described as relaxed and productive. Randy described the culture (delete -and )as engaging and refreshing.
All three unions met with the top executives of USAir for 4 days until some basic terms were agreed upon; what was worked out by the unions in these 4 days could not be worked out in 4 years with AA. Agreements in principle were reached by APFA, APA, AND TWU. One should look at our "Bridge Agreement" as a floor - a starting point in which negotiations will begin should this merger be approved by the bankruptcy court. This interim agreement will not be voted on by the membership. Once bankruptcy is exited there will be expedited Negotiations for a New Contract for ALL flight attendants on the property. Negotiations for a market based contract will take place immediately following a single-carrier certification. The FINAL SINGLE CARRIER AGREEMENT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO MEMBERSHIP RATIFICATION. If an agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of the certification the matter will be submitted to final binding arbitration. In other words we will be able to make improvements on the Interim (Bridge) Agreement and rather than being in negotiations for years. We will have a contract in a matter of months, not four to five years as is the usual case with AA. Once again, the final, single carrier agreement will be subject to membership ratification.
We were next shown charts that show the immediate increase in market share should the merger take place. The new AA would go from number 4 on the east coast to number 1; the east coast is the most lucrative market in the ENTIRE WORLD and the "new" AA would dominate. We would move from number 3 in the middle of the country to number 1, and would move from number 5 on the west coast to number 3, just slightly behind Southwest in total market share-- just by simply merging the two companies as they are today. All of these extra passengers would feed our international routes which will allow for growth internationally. We would be just as large as United and Delta and we would get back the premium passengers we've lost to then due to our smaller network today.
This chart was followed by several others, one showing that all but 1 of AA's airports in its "Cornerstone Strategy" lose money. By getting the lucrative east coast markets from USAir in the deal, including hubs in Charlotte, Philadelphia , DC, as well as the Shuttle, an additional $1.5 billion in revenue will be generated. This is the money that USAir's management is willing to share with all employees. The potential for profits is tremendous! I didn't take notes from all of the charts, but let me say that I was impressed with the thoroughness of the business plan. It really made sense.
Some important notes about this process: First of all AA is still going to court to abrogate our contracts on Monday April 23rd; they have not been deterred since this news broke. Never in history have all unions signed agreements with another carrier during bankruptcy. This is a very bold, gutsy, and even historic move by our unions!
Another point I'd like to make is that an integration such as this does not trigger a representational vote for a union. Because of the FAA Reauthorization Bill the union with more than 65% of the membership becomes the surviving union in a merger; because APFA' s membership is more than 65% larger than AFA's at USAir, APFA will be the bargaining agent for the new AA . In addition, the Allegheny/Mohawk act states that the unions involved in the merger must try to come to an agreement on seniority integration. If no agreement is reached then the issue will be settled by arbitration per this law.
I came away from the meeting with a much clearer picture of what the deal with USAir would mean for all of us. In my opinion, the merger is a no-brainer. I know from reading Facebook and other websites that many of you are concerned with everything from Preferential bidding to seniority integration, to uniforms...in negotiations there is give and take. Our choice is the Term Sheet imposed on us by AA for the next 10 years or this merger.
We are still going to be American Airlines; our planes (even all that are on order) are not affected by this proposal. The merger gives us the opportunity to salvage our contract. The early out package has the potential to save many jobs and promote hiring. As the process unfolds and more specific details become available, I will send updates. Everyone will be briefed as soon as anything is finalized . So stay tuned and please visit APFA.ORG to stay informed. Until then please take care of yourselves and each other.
This came from the AA/USair Flight Attendant Facebook page this evening. I thought it was a thorough explanation of the deal that has been offered to the AA flight Attendants, and in turn the USAirways flight attendants, if this merger were ever to go through.....
Cliff Jones
I just spent the afternoon being briefed about this potential deal with USAir. IMA Base Chair Randy Trautman and Jena Hopkins spent about 3 hours going through the proposal and answering questions. I learned a lot about the process and what... may come next. The details of the Bridge Agreement with USAir can be found at APFA.ORG. This email will attempt to explain how this arrangement came about.
American Airlines has not budged one dollar off of the $230 Million in concessions that it is demanding from us. Any statement to the contrary by the company is a lie. If you have wondered why negotiations updates haven't been as frequent lately it's because the company hasn't negotiated, and there has been nothing to report.
Randy explained that every time APFA's negotiators tried to suggest different approaches, Taylor Vaughn and AA's team would steer the group back to the $230 million number. American's business plan , if you can call it a plan, is simple: slash employee pay and benefits to reduce cost. They have no plans that will generate revenue. The term sheet is the first and last offer. We would have to live with this term sheet for 6 years. We all know the way AA chooses to have protracted negotiations (currently 4 years with this negotiations) so we could be looking at being stuck with the company's term sheet for at least the next 10 years.
Randy stated that until a couple of weeks ago things were very bleak for us. It was explained that the Bankruptcy judge really doesn't care about what we gave in 2003 under the restructuring, what our pay is, where we layover, our duty rigs, etc....He only cares about the company having a plan to exit bankruptcy that will work for the creditors. It is not his job to look at all of our union contracts and decide what is and isn't fair. The details aren't important; we can try to argue our case in court, but in the last 33 bankruptcy cases where companies asked the judge to abrogate (throw out) contracts, 33 were thrown out. The gavel will drop and our contract will be wiped out instantly; the term sheet would then be our new contract.
Then only a couple of weeks ago, APFA President Laura Glading called the negotiators and the APFA Board of Directors to a meeting to let them know that USAir had contacted her and the other unions on AA's property. The CEO, Doug Parker, had an offer that was much better than AA's term sheet and wanted to discuss it. Union officers from all three union were privately briefed and presented a business plan that INCREASES REVENUES AND DOESN'T SLASH COSTS on the backs of labor. The meetings were described as relaxed and productive. Randy described the culture (delete -and )as engaging and refreshing.
All three unions met with the top executives of USAir for 4 days until some basic terms were agreed upon; what was worked out by the unions in these 4 days could not be worked out in 4 years with AA. Agreements in principle were reached by APFA, APA, AND TWU. One should look at our "Bridge Agreement" as a floor - a starting point in which negotiations will begin should this merger be approved by the bankruptcy court. This interim agreement will not be voted on by the membership. Once bankruptcy is exited there will be expedited Negotiations for a New Contract for ALL flight attendants on the property. Negotiations for a market based contract will take place immediately following a single-carrier certification. The FINAL SINGLE CARRIER AGREEMENT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO MEMBERSHIP RATIFICATION. If an agreement cannot be reached within 60 days of the certification the matter will be submitted to final binding arbitration. In other words we will be able to make improvements on the Interim (Bridge) Agreement and rather than being in negotiations for years. We will have a contract in a matter of months, not four to five years as is the usual case with AA. Once again, the final, single carrier agreement will be subject to membership ratification.
We were next shown charts that show the immediate increase in market share should the merger take place. The new AA would go from number 4 on the east coast to number 1; the east coast is the most lucrative market in the ENTIRE WORLD and the "new" AA would dominate. We would move from number 3 in the middle of the country to number 1, and would move from number 5 on the west coast to number 3, just slightly behind Southwest in total market share-- just by simply merging the two companies as they are today. All of these extra passengers would feed our international routes which will allow for growth internationally. We would be just as large as United and Delta and we would get back the premium passengers we've lost to then due to our smaller network today.
This chart was followed by several others, one showing that all but 1 of AA's airports in its "Cornerstone Strategy" lose money. By getting the lucrative east coast markets from USAir in the deal, including hubs in Charlotte, Philadelphia , DC, as well as the Shuttle, an additional $1.5 billion in revenue will be generated. This is the money that USAir's management is willing to share with all employees. The potential for profits is tremendous! I didn't take notes from all of the charts, but let me say that I was impressed with the thoroughness of the business plan. It really made sense.
Some important notes about this process: First of all AA is still going to court to abrogate our contracts on Monday April 23rd; they have not been deterred since this news broke. Never in history have all unions signed agreements with another carrier during bankruptcy. This is a very bold, gutsy, and even historic move by our unions!
Another point I'd like to make is that an integration such as this does not trigger a representational vote for a union. Because of the FAA Reauthorization Bill the union with more than 65% of the membership becomes the surviving union in a merger; because APFA' s membership is more than 65% larger than AFA's at USAir, APFA will be the bargaining agent for the new AA . In addition, the Allegheny/Mohawk act states that the unions involved in the merger must try to come to an agreement on seniority integration. If no agreement is reached then the issue will be settled by arbitration per this law.
I came away from the meeting with a much clearer picture of what the deal with USAir would mean for all of us. In my opinion, the merger is a no-brainer. I know from reading Facebook and other websites that many of you are concerned with everything from Preferential bidding to seniority integration, to uniforms...in negotiations there is give and take. Our choice is the Term Sheet imposed on us by AA for the next 10 years or this merger.
We are still going to be American Airlines; our planes (even all that are on order) are not affected by this proposal. The merger gives us the opportunity to salvage our contract. The early out package has the potential to save many jobs and promote hiring. As the process unfolds and more specific details become available, I will send updates. Everyone will be briefed as soon as anything is finalized . So stay tuned and please visit APFA.ORG to stay informed. Until then please take care of yourselves and each other.
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