Delta has a TA
05-16-2012, 07:44 PM
#211
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
So much chest thumping by the angry f/o knitting club. We get it, hold your breath and vote no no matter what and RA will be forced to hand over the keys to the executive washroom cause you have him over a barrel. He couldn't possibly just then drag out negotiations for 5 or 6 years. He will immediately capitulate. That's the plan right?
Kind of wondering, are all you scope or die warriors going to send 1/3 of your pay to the deadzoners who have lost so much and have very little time or chance of recovery? Or are they just collateral damage? Just what is the plan for them? Or is it a secret? Inquiring minds and all...
Kind of wondering, are all you scope or die warriors going to send 1/3 of your pay to the deadzoners who have lost so much and have very little time or chance of recovery? Or are they just collateral damage? Just what is the plan for them? Or is it a secret? Inquiring minds and all...
You know what this reminds me of? Flight attendants. I bet young FA's loved the "if you're old, fat or pregnant you're fired" policy right up until they got pregnant, fat and old. Then they wanted that changed.
I think young pilots loved age 60 until they turned 59, then they wanted 65. Especially to recover lost pay.
In 2007, it seemed to go like this:
Age 59 Pilot: "AGE 65!"
Age 30 Pilot: "Really?!?"
Age 59 Pilot: "YES REALLY! YOU UNGRATEFUL [REDACTED] RJ PUKE WITH SJS AND AN ERAU DEGREE HIS DADDY PAID FOR! DON'T TELL ME NO TO AGE 65! WE ARE OWED THIS! WE DESERVE THIS! WE WERE SCREWED! SO I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO SOME SPOILED BRAT FROM THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION TELL ME WE SHOULDN'T RAISE RETIREMENT TO 65!"
Age 61 Pilot: "You willing to make that retroactive?"
Age 59 Pilot: "HEEELLLLLL NO!"
05-16-2012, 08:07 PM
#212
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Scambo, you make a great point.
You know what this reminds me of? Flight attendants. I bet young FA's loved the "if you're old, fat or pregnant you're fired" policy right up until they got pregnant, fat and old. Then they wanted that changed.
I think young pilots loved age 60 until they turned 59, then they wanted 65. Especially to recover lost pay.
In 2007, it seemed to go like this:
Age 59 Pilot: "AGE 65!"
Age 30 Pilot: "Really?!?"
Age 59 Pilot: "YES REALLY! YOU UNGRATEFUL [REDACTED] RJ PUKE WITH SJS AND AN ERAU DEGREE HIS DADDY PAID FOR! DON'T TELL ME NO TO AGE 65! WE ARE OWED THIS! WE DESERVE THIS! WE WERE SCREWED! SO I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO SOME SPOILED BRAT FROM THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION TELL ME WE SHOULDN'T RAISE RETIREMENT TO 65!"
Age 61 Pilot: "You willing to make that retroactive?"
Age 59 Pilot: "HEEELLLLLL NO!"
You know what this reminds me of? Flight attendants. I bet young FA's loved the "if you're old, fat or pregnant you're fired" policy right up until they got pregnant, fat and old. Then they wanted that changed.
I think young pilots loved age 60 until they turned 59, then they wanted 65. Especially to recover lost pay.
In 2007, it seemed to go like this:
Age 59 Pilot: "AGE 65!"
Age 30 Pilot: "Really?!?"
Age 59 Pilot: "YES REALLY! YOU UNGRATEFUL [REDACTED] RJ PUKE WITH SJS AND AN ERAU DEGREE HIS DADDY PAID FOR! DON'T TELL ME NO TO AGE 65! WE ARE OWED THIS! WE DESERVE THIS! WE WERE SCREWED! SO I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO SOME SPOILED BRAT FROM THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION TELL ME WE SHOULDN'T RAISE RETIREMENT TO 65!"
Age 61 Pilot: "You willing to make that retroactive?"
Age 59 Pilot: "HEEELLLLLL NO!"
The real issue is the changing of the rules with respect to this job. It has always been my nature to be a saver/investor. For far too many, that wasn't what they practiced.
I remember getting ready for a flt in e concourse when the claim and note money was released to us, two guys in the next cubicle were talking about the bmw m-5's they were buying with their money. Being a fly on the wall, you can imagine how much my jaw dropped.
The paradigm changed, the rules changed, and choices have consequences no matter what.
Lets keep it light and hope for the best, but plan for the worst going forward.
05-16-2012, 08:28 PM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Ftb, great post as always. Single issue voters, gotta love em !
05-16-2012, 08:42 PM
#214
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Kind words FTB, I am thankful that when I come to work, I don't encounter really anyone like that. My problem is that if I do, I practice management at the point of the problem. Being a carpetbagger, I could sometimes use some lessons on how to be more southern.
The real issue is the changing of the rules with respect to this job. It has always been my nature to be a saver/investor. For far too many, that wasn't what they practiced.
I remember getting ready for a flt in e concourse when the claim and note money was released to us, two guys in the next cubicle were talking about the bmw m-5's they were buying with their money. Being a fly on the wall, you can imagine how much my jaw dropped.
The paradigm changed, the rules changed, and choices have consequences no matter what.
Lets keep it light and hope for the best, but plan for the worst going forward.
The real issue is the changing of the rules with respect to this job. It has always been my nature to be a saver/investor. For far too many, that wasn't what they practiced.
I remember getting ready for a flt in e concourse when the claim and note money was released to us, two guys in the next cubicle were talking about the bmw m-5's they were buying with their money. Being a fly on the wall, you can imagine how much my jaw dropped.
The paradigm changed, the rules changed, and choices have consequences no matter what.
Lets keep it light and hope for the best, but plan for the worst going forward.
Wise.
You sure you're not like... 900 years old?
Can I add something else to the cause?
We need to make sure we take our interactions with other Delta pilots during these "stressful times" as one pilot at a time.
I made a joke painting a broad brush on Mr. 59 years old vs Mr. 30 and Mr. 61. Jokes are funny. Especially when they play on well earned stereotypes. However, all joking aside it is interesting when it's unacceptable to be sexist, racist, bigoted, homophobes, yet, stereotyping an entire subset of our coworkers whether by seat, base, age, airplane or DOH, or flat out the whole generation, that's somehow okay? If funny, yes, but otherwise that doesn't advance the, sigh, unity cause. I said unity. Bar should be happy I said something he preaches about.
So I think what we'll see at times on the line or here is just plain ordinary greed from some folks, sometimes disguised as "I'm owed [fill in the blank]." And of course you can move up, down, left and right on the list and find the necessary fill in the blanks.
But if the bible talks about greed, well then hell, it ain't nothing new and nobody owns the market whether old or young. It's an individual problem. We just need to reason past them, tell them we love them, then figure out a way to smote them and possibly move up a number. Smoting in a biblical sense of course*.
*I might not have completely grasped the concept yet btw.
But basically, one guy at a time. Even I'll try to be better... unless it makes a funny joke.So I think what we'll see at times on the line or here is just plain ordinary greed from some folks, sometimes disguised as "I'm owed [fill in the blank]." And of course you can move up, down, left and right on the list and find the necessary fill in the blanks.
But if the bible talks about greed, well then hell, it ain't nothing new and nobody owns the market whether old or young. It's an individual problem. We just need to reason past them, tell them we love them, then figure out a way to smote them and possibly move up a number. Smoting in a biblical sense of course*.
*I might not have completely grasped the concept yet btw.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 05-16-2012 at 09:18 PM.
05-16-2012, 09:52 PM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
Scambo, you make a great point.
You know what this reminds me of? Flight attendants. I bet young FA's loved the "if you're old, fat or pregnant you're fired" policy right up until they got pregnant, fat and old. Then they wanted that changed.
I think young pilots loved age 60 until they turned 59, then they wanted 65. Especially to recover lost pay.
In 2007, it seemed to go like this:
Age 59 Pilot: "AGE 65!"
Age 30 Pilot: "Really?!?"
Age 59 Pilot: "YES REALLY! YOU UNGRATEFUL [REDACTED] RJ PUKE WITH SJS AND AN ERAU DEGREE HIS DADDY PAID FOR! DON'T TELL ME NO TO AGE 65! WE ARE OWED THIS! WE DESERVE THIS! WE WERE SCREWED! SO I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO SOME SPOILED BRAT FROM THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION TELL ME WE SHOULDN'T RAISE RETIREMENT TO 65!"
Age 61 Pilot: "You willing to make that retroactive?"
Age 59 Pilot: "HEEELLLLLL NO!"
You know what this reminds me of? Flight attendants. I bet young FA's loved the "if you're old, fat or pregnant you're fired" policy right up until they got pregnant, fat and old. Then they wanted that changed.
I think young pilots loved age 60 until they turned 59, then they wanted 65. Especially to recover lost pay.
In 2007, it seemed to go like this:
Age 59 Pilot: "AGE 65!"
Age 30 Pilot: "Really?!?"
Age 59 Pilot: "YES REALLY! YOU UNGRATEFUL [REDACTED] RJ PUKE WITH SJS AND AN ERAU DEGREE HIS DADDY PAID FOR! DON'T TELL ME NO TO AGE 65! WE ARE OWED THIS! WE DESERVE THIS! WE WERE SCREWED! SO I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO SOME SPOILED BRAT FROM THE ENTITLEMENT GENERATION TELL ME WE SHOULDN'T RAISE RETIREMENT TO 65!"
Age 61 Pilot: "You willing to make that retroactive?"
Age 59 Pilot: "HEEELLLLLL NO!"
With that said, who are these crazy bastards that want to work past 60? For me, it's all about a number: the $$ I need to retire. If I hit that number at 60, I'm gone. If I hit that number at (plus a few $$) at 55, I'm gone. The trouble with "I have to work until 65 to make up for what I lost" is that it is a BS argument. If your 60 and "need" to work, you make bad decisions and should go just on that basis. I think you could have walked just a few years ago with nearly $1M but you decided to work for a fraction of that for what: Medical? I call BS. Age 65 screwed a lot of people and put the brakes on carrier progression for 5 years. AK screwed all of us on the west coast for a long, long, time because why? Because it wasn't in ATL so DALPA doesn't give a rat's ass.
Let the flames begin....
05-16-2012, 09:59 PM
#216
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Delta is looking to get rid of DCI, the only leverage they have to do that would be to exchange 70ish seat jets for 50 seaters and sunset the agreements. Otherwise, Delta management would be forced into billions of losses over the life of the contracts they set up. Plan C would be to start merging the regionals into mainline(not going to happen because ALPA would never allow that). 9E management may have screwed up but so did Delta's, now the reality of the situation is a TA with scope relief to cover these mistakes.
The best solution here is to vote No on whatever this TA is, kick DALPA out, get a new union(doesn't matter which one), and start from scratch. As I've said before, which struck a nerve with everyone, is that you won't be able to vote on a contract that doesn't have scope relief as long as ALPA is you CBA negotiator. ALPA's conflict of interest doesn't allow them to bargain without the interest of regional pilots in mind.
The best solution here is to vote No on whatever this TA is, kick DALPA out, get a new union(doesn't matter which one), and start from scratch. As I've said before, which struck a nerve with everyone, is that you won't be able to vote on a contract that doesn't have scope relief as long as ALPA is you CBA negotiator. ALPA's conflict of interest doesn't allow them to bargain without the interest of regional pilots in mind.
You're an idiot.
05-16-2012, 10:10 PM
#218
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
While that may be true, there will be one glaring difference. HIS extra five years were at BK rates, and were during what should have been his highest earning years of his career. After the loss of retirement, AND the paycut on top of it, those extra five years will probably not dent the loss.. YOU, on the other hand will be spending those same years (relatively speaking) earning pretty damned good money... This class warfare that is shaping up is getting pretty sickening. Isn't there another web board where guys whine constantly like this and many escaped to this one for a little maturity and intelligent conversation? Some of ya'll should truly be ashamed of your behavior.
05-16-2012, 10:12 PM
#219
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
05-16-2012, 10:12 PM
#220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
Amen brother... Age 65 just gives a lot of the old geezers more excuse to stay at a job that "define" who they are, or to some, just plainly want more money.
PS: Don't get me started on how the "enhanced marketing partnership" with AK screwed us...
PS: Don't get me started on how the "enhanced marketing partnership" with AK screwed us...
Let me start by saying I love my job; however, I love my time off and the other million hobbies I have. If you have to work, I'm convinced this is da sh.t!
With that said, who are these crazy bastards that want to work past 60? For me, it's all about a number: the $$ I need to retire. If I hit that number at 60, I'm gone. If I hit that number at (plus a few $$) at 55, I'm gone. The trouble with "I have to work until 65 to make up for what I lost" is that it is a BS argument. If your 60 and "need" to work, you make bad decisions and should go just on that basis. I think you could have walked just a few years ago with nearly $1M but you decided to work for a fraction of that for what: Medical? I call BS. Age 65 screwed a lot of people and put the brakes on carrier progression for 5 years. AK screwed all of us on the west coast for a long, long, time because why? Because it wasn't in ATL so DALPA doesn't give a rat's ass.
Let the flames begin....
With that said, who are these crazy bastards that want to work past 60? For me, it's all about a number: the $$ I need to retire. If I hit that number at 60, I'm gone. If I hit that number at (plus a few $$) at 55, I'm gone. The trouble with "I have to work until 65 to make up for what I lost" is that it is a BS argument. If your 60 and "need" to work, you make bad decisions and should go just on that basis. I think you could have walked just a few years ago with nearly $1M but you decided to work for a fraction of that for what: Medical? I call BS. Age 65 screwed a lot of people and put the brakes on carrier progression for 5 years. AK screwed all of us on the west coast for a long, long, time because why? Because it wasn't in ATL so DALPA doesn't give a rat's ass.
Let the flames begin....
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