My impression is there are fair number of APC regulars who weren't around to go through the bankruptcy process and loss of pensions.

I think there are some significant differences with respect to the pension losses suffered by different demographic groups. I'll try and briefly explain them.

Once the PBGC took over the DB plan they had to determine essentially who gets what and they divided the entire group into different priority categories. One's priority category (PC), in addition to their earnings history, etc determined how much they got.

If you were 53 or older on the date of plan termination you were PC-3. If you were younger than that you were PC-4. Pilots in the PC-3 category received a very significantly higher retirement benefit than PC-4 pilots.

Then all pilots "shared" in the $2.1B pre-petition bankruptcy claim and the $550M note. DALPA divided that amongst all the pilots according to a methodology they devised. Their methods gave greater significantly greater amounts to the older pilots.

Then we add in the age 65 rule change. Pilots who were PC-3 actually got something of a windfall as they get a greater retirement benefit from the PBGC, they got a bunch more money from the claim and note, they are very senior and now got to fly to 65.

They are NOT "Dead Zoners".

That term applies to guys like our beloved T Square. He was younger than 53, so he is a PC-3 guy, he also got less money from the claim and note. And, while many say begrudgingly "Yeah, but he can fly to 65", he can, but even doing so, he will not be able to make up for what was taken.

There's another little detail about "Letter 51" that many people have forgotten. Pre-bankruptcy (I believe Letter 46) the pension plan was frozen. Delta then converted from a defined benefit plan to a defined contribution plan.

DALPA correctly recognized that change would effect individual pilots retirements vastly differently. They knew the pretty senior PC-3 guys retirement benefits would be in good shape and those just shy of the PC-3 cutoff would be hammered. So the "new" DC plan had different retirement contribution percentages to make up for that. There was a matrix and (IIRC) those percentages varied between 3% and 17%. Letter 51 did away with those differences and paid everyone the same. Effectively (another) windfall for the PC-3 guys and (yet another) slam for the "Dead Zoners".

All of this is from memory so I suspect (and hope) someone will correct any errors...

 

Dude!

I have the criminal mind, just not a malfunctioning super ego.

 

Most of the senior (old) guy's I fly with understand the importance of scope relief. We will see little gain from this contract in the short time we are here.
It's the same argument about leaving the national debt to our children. It needs to be fixed. I know I will vote on this TA as if MY son/daughter was a new hire at DELTA AIR LINES

 

Gloopy?

George?

ACL?

 

Just a thought. Delta Air Lines, Delta Shuttle, and Delta Express have all been painted on the side of airplanes flown by "mainline" pilots. If EB was talking about up gauging "Delta Connection" flying he may very well be talking about it as a brand, not as "Pinnacle and Skywest will do great at this". At that level of the company, to the executives and their talking points, it's really all the same. I don't know what it says on the side of my airplane but I'd feel awfully good to fly an airplane that said Delta Connection on the side and "Operated by Delta Air Lines" by the door.

 

Delta will pair down flying for 2012.
I guess we are right sizing for another synergistic event

TEN

 

It's hard to start a family at the beginning of your career bringing in $1500 a month flying a jet, just to hope you could pay for it decades down the road.

 

No doubt. It's also hard to have planned on a retirement to be there only to have it taken away right before the time for that retirement to take place. Like I said before, we all have our crosses to bear.

Of course this is why I want to see more rational payscales that take time/value of money into consideration.. but I won't start THAT again... I don't want Scambo any more angry at me than he already is..

 

I'm glad you like your kneecaps.

 

IF this was the case, bring the TA.

Its not though.