C54 Vice Chair Perspective
05-31-2012, 01:30 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
But, once again it is alleged a very tight team negotiated what they believe is best, reliant on non disclosed information, with a "fait accompli" style presentation to our MEC. My "feelings" about this process are mixed. Certainly our NC cut to the chase, perhaps by going beyond their authority ... at the same time, management had an Exec. VP at the table wheeling and dealing as well. Neither side approached this as they would / will traditional Section 6.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I also differ with Mr. Aaron on the concept of external economic review. Generally, if paid by ALPA, the consultant will agree with ALPA. It is likely management would object to a third party coming in to review sensitive information and that in and of itself might be a deal breaker. Finally, but most importantly, there are not going to be any outside consultants who know Delta better than the experts Delta pilots have had working on the effort nearly full time (as long as I've been here).
By the way, if Delta objects then this should be a deal breaker for us. Management cant hold all the cards in this game of poker....It is quite easy for them to present their case knowing the big picture while we become pawns to their Kings. C H E C K M A T E !
05-31-2012, 01:34 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
You know my goal is to see all Delta flying performed by Delta pilots. I do not see the TA as a "pay for scope trade" deal. DCI shrinks and more flying is returned to mainline. My benchmark is unity.
If we continue down the road into traditional Section 6 I think our Section 1 result will not be as good as we see today.
If we continue down the road into traditional Section 6 I think our Section 1 result will not be as good as we see today.
05-31-2012, 01:38 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Scoop
Give it up Bar. Scope is my number issue and I have been called a "Spin Meister" for basically saying I am glad we held the line at 76 seats and for not shouting "No More RJ's " from the rooftops.
Some guys are more interested in emotion then logic.
Scoop
Some guys are more interested in emotion then logic.
Scoop
05-31-2012, 01:54 PM
#24
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Bucking, sometimes you come of as a stroke of genius. Today not so much. Your desire to play both sides as the "fair and balanced ambassador" sometimes causes you to take position greatly at odds with other things you have brilliantly pointed out at the peril of your credibility.
Jefferson had argued against Federal power and national debt, but, he authorized the Louisiana purchase. It was probably unconstitutional, and it resolved foreign debt while committing the US to foreign debt. He did it to avoid war and because he knew a good deal when he saw one. The residents of Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska; parts of Minnesota that were west of the Mississippi River; most of North Dakota; nearly all of South Dakota; northeastern New Mexico; northern Texas; the portions of Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado east of the Continental Divide; and Louisiana west of the Mississippi River, including the city of New Orleans are all happy not to be in greater Quebec.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 05-31-2012 at 02:08 PM.
05-31-2012, 02:10 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Just happy to be here Boss!
Posts: 200
I agree the process issues are troubling and need to be addressed in the very near future; however, that is a separate matter than the TA before us.
I disagree that the letter is a well written or a well thought out argument. His emotion and anger ooze out after just a couple of paragraphs. Most of the premises to support his argument are mere suppositions, not verifiable data or facts. Using a series of questions to prop up your position is not an effective technique. It only invites more speculation.
I suspect this letter will be praised by the hardcore no voters, ridiculed by the solid yes votes and just dismissed by those on the fence...so in the end, it is no help.
I disagree that the letter is a well written or a well thought out argument. His emotion and anger ooze out after just a couple of paragraphs. Most of the premises to support his argument are mere suppositions, not verifiable data or facts. Using a series of questions to prop up your position is not an effective technique. It only invites more speculation.
I suspect this letter will be praised by the hardcore no voters, ridiculed by the solid yes votes and just dismissed by those on the fence...so in the end, it is no help.
05-31-2012, 02:13 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Originally Posted by NuGuy
FWIW, Art is probably the smartest (although brilliant is a better adjective) guy on the MEC, and that's no BS.
If he says no, then there is no doubt that the TA is a steaming pile.
But then again, you don't have to be that smart to see that, just unindoctrinated and not living in fear of your own shadow.
Nu
If he says no, then there is no doubt that the TA is a steaming pile.
But then again, you don't have to be that smart to see that, just unindoctrinated and not living in fear of your own shadow.
Nu
Agreed. If he were our MEC Chairman, I am certain no one would be even talking about DPA.
We would be moving thoughtfully toward the right TA for us.
05-31-2012, 02:13 PM
#27
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Rogue24
Delta’s CEO is on the Federal Reserve in Atlanta, and he has a far better understanding of the money supply and monetary policy than our expanded negotiating team does. He even stated (in a line check meeting) that he expected inflation to “hit like a ton of bricks.”
Did you really just say you are OK with the Admin and NC going around the MEC?
Did you really just say you are OK with the Admin and NC going around the MEC?
If you can get a new mortgage or refinance an existing one, interest rates have fallen to incredible new lows.
Interest on a 15-year loan has dropped below 3 percent for the first time ever, according to data from Freddie Mac.
The average rate on the 30-year loan fell to 3.75 percent. That's down from 3.78 percent last week and the lowest since long-term mortgages began in the 1950s.
The 15-year mortgage rate is down to 2.97 percent this week from 3.04 percent last week. The 15-year loan is often used for refinancing, that is if you can get the bank to call you back and then meet the requirements.
If the economy doesn't fall apart in other ways, these low rates may help the housing market as we are now in the buying season.
Interest on a 15-year loan has dropped below 3 percent for the first time ever, according to data from Freddie Mac.
The average rate on the 30-year loan fell to 3.75 percent. That's down from 3.78 percent last week and the lowest since long-term mortgages began in the 1950s.
The 15-year mortgage rate is down to 2.97 percent this week from 3.04 percent last week. The 15-year loan is often used for refinancing, that is if you can get the bank to call you back and then meet the requirements.
If the economy doesn't fall apart in other ways, these low rates may help the housing market as we are now in the buying season.
05-31-2012, 02:13 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Drunk or not everybody has their good days and bad.
I know you are conflicted. Just don't drink too much off the Koolaid producing ALPA teets. Let me rephrase that....be very carefully about being sucked into the idea that a very few should rule and decide for the masses......
05-31-2012, 02:18 PM
#29
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by TheManager
Agreed. If he were our MEC Chairman, I am certain no one would be even talking about DPA.
We would be moving thoughtfully toward the right TA for us.
We would be moving thoughtfully toward the right TA for us.
If frog's had wings, they wouldn't bump their butts on the ground
If a Chicken sits on an egg and hatches a chick, why can't a **** sit on a contract and hatch a TA?
05-31-2012, 02:21 PM
#30
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by ITSALLGOOD
I agree the process issues are troubling and need to be addressed in the very near future; however, that is a separate matter than the TA before us.
I disagree that the letter is a well written or a well thought out argument. His emotion and anger ooze out after just a couple of paragraphs. Most of the premises to support his argument are mere suppositions, not verifiable data or facts. Using a series of questions to prop up your position is not an effective technique. It only invites more speculation.
I suspect this letter will be praised by the hardcore no voters, ridiculed by the solid yes votes and just dismissed by those on the fence...so in the end, it is no help.
I disagree that the letter is a well written or a well thought out argument. His emotion and anger ooze out after just a couple of paragraphs. Most of the premises to support his argument are mere suppositions, not verifiable data or facts. Using a series of questions to prop up your position is not an effective technique. It only invites more speculation.
I suspect this letter will be praised by the hardcore no voters, ridiculed by the solid yes votes and just dismissed by those on the fence...so in the end, it is no help.
I want to be a middle of the road guy and be able to objectively see both sides of an arguement. I really do. Really!
That said, how would this TA get a "solid yes voter?"
I can understand a weak yes, or a weak no, or a strong no. There is nothing in the TA that makes me let out a gasp and say YEEESSS!
What is a solid yes voter?
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