My personal opinion on the UCAL scope issue is that "the toothpaste (RJs) is out of the tube and there is no putting it back in" for the 50-70 seat variety of RJs at UCAL. Any RJ above the 70 seat version should be flown by mainline period. Use ratios and hard caps to limit the overall RJ effect on mainline flying (much like what your TA proposes). I'm concerned about JV's and widebody flying being siphoned away from us by other Star alliance carriers (Aer Lingus and COPA comes to mind) and we need lots of contract help in these areas going forward post-merger.

CEO Smisnk has made it known he wants 90 seaters and have them outsourced. I'm sure he is using USAir and AA's bk proposed scope arguments at the negotiating table to try and win his case before the NMB.

As far as Delta's TA for scope, it seems like a nice solution to reduce overall RJ airframes and seats, add mainline 717's, and provide your metals customer the 1st class cabin that they seek for upgrades. UCAL sucks in this area and I'm sure we have lost many customers to you because of this.

Thanks for your response. The trouble is 76 seater is already out of the tube for us. Do we allow more of them to establish the block hour ratio, restrict turboprops to 37 seats and 37,000 lbs MGTOW, cap DCI at 450 airframes, tighten JV/Codeshare language, and accelerate the retirement of 50 seaters? It's a tough call IMO.

In the immediate sense, I don't have a dog in this fight; being that I'm not DAL. In the bigger sense though I do; as how this transpires will send out ripples that will touch pretty much the entire industry (of which I am a part).

I can't help but wonder what in the heck is anyone thinking here? I called it back in the 1980's when ALPA wanted to scope out "little airplane" flying, as it was beneath them. I stated then that approach was a mistake - ANY flying done using the name "ABC" airlines needed to be done by someone on the ABC seniority list. Instead the regional model blew up in our faces. Now, we're finally at a point where the 50 seaters are not economically viable, so do we (as an industry) hold the line and let them die, or do we keep moving the bar a little higher and letting the camel continue to crawl into the tent? Perhaps we could save a lot of time and effort and just go ahead and give away anything with less than 400 seats - it appears given enough time we'll eventually get there. I can't fathom how anyone can be so stupid as to think otherwise, given history.

It used to be when times were good real solid contractual gains were made. That doesn't seem to be happening here. If this is truly cost neutral, then it's a loss for pilots (and a big one at that).

Oh well, you all are going to do what you want - I just hope you don't screw everyone else in the process.

Maybe it has something to do with DL pilots leading the pack in giving away 50 seat SJs, 70 seat SJs and now more 90 seaters with 76 seats, first class included, in GOOD times! It would be one thing if this came at the end of a tough fight or in BK, but DAL is supposed to make a $2B profit in 2012. The DL contract is still months from becoming amendable.

The only reason pilots have any leverage is because ALPA and other unions have created a cartel, albeit often times a weak one, of piloting services. It seems that one pilot group in particular is almost anxious to be the first to break ranks from fellow pilots to "help" their management gain a competitive advantage in the airline marketplace. "The professionals?" Appeasement only works in the short term.

When was the last time Delta pilots got anywhere near a strike?

How many former rEAL pilots did Delta pilots help get hired at Delta?

How ironic is it that DPA got as far as it did? DL pilots run ALPA Int'l, but a large proportion of DL pilots still aren't happy.

We, pilots, really are our own worst enemy.

This is NOT cost neutral to the pilot contract, it "might" be cost neutral to the DAL Corp.

It will be a 350-425 mil annual benefit to the pilots in contractual increases.

How can they replace our routes and jobs with 76 seaters when 85% of the route segments have to be below 900sm, 61% of the domestic block hours have to be flown by mainline pilots, the number of DCI seats is reduced by 15.5%, the number of DCI airframes is hard capped at 450, no unlimited 70 seat turboprop exemption and the number of 76 seat jets, which might be authorized, is reduced from 255 to 223 with no 3:1 ratio to increase the number? I think an honest evaluation of our scope would indicate that the number of mainline pilot jobs will grow and DCI will decrease.

Exactly, it appears that the savings from reducing DCI is being invested in the Delta pilots. If it's cost neutral, then by definition, there is no more money on the table.

When your pilot group actually contributes to the cause, I'll listen to you. Try pulling your wages up past embarassing. And the 76 seaters DID come in BK.

The whole "it's not really a 76 seater, it's a 90 seater" argument is stupid. Our A320s could hold 180, but they're at 150. Our 767-300ERs could hold 260+, but they're configured to 210. WRT outsourced aircraft we as a pilot group LIMIT the seats. The configurations make sense for revenue.

Ever heard of the United pilot strike in 1985? How about the United pilot Contract 2000 that only allowed 50 seat regional SJs? DL pilots followed that one up with matching the pay, inferior work rules and giving away 70 seaters in that C2000. United pilots helped get almost 700 rEAL pilots hired at UAL via preferential interviews. NWA got even more rEAL pilots hired at NWA relative to their size.

If not for Gerald Grinstein DL pilots would have been in the same situation as UCH pilots.

When was the last time DL pilots got anywhere near a strike again?

50 seaters, 70 seaters given away and more 90 seaters with 76 seats given away if the T/A passes; all in good times, without a fight and not under duress.

P.S. Johnso, I could not care less whether an obvious company sycophant chooses to listen to facts. For some no amount of evidence is sufficient.

You done squat since post BK. Try moving forward. What you've done in the past does nothing for us today. I know what NWA pilots have done. I was hired by NWA.

And UAL won't be allowed to strike. Isn't going to happen. What's funny is you say you could not care less, but you won't stop talking.