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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1213364)
Carl, this contract is a huge net gain for pilots.
Just because DALPA says it's so...doesn't make it so. |
Originally Posted by DLpilot
(Post 1213401)
I think they are selling this harder than alpa.
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Originally Posted by DLpilot
(Post 1213401)
Look at the weekly transcripts from management. Have you ever seen management try to sell something so badly? I think they are selling this harder than alpa.
http://images.wikia.com/familyguy/im...f/Salesman.jpg |
Originally Posted by groundstop
(Post 1213318)
I'll give an A to the DALPA marketing department, but an F to the TA. I'd rather take my chances with a drawn out section 6, knowing that RA will want a deal done even if this gets voted down. They would be back to the table and within a month or two we would have some fixes to this TA and mgmt would go forward with the business plan of adding 717's.
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Originally Posted by More Bacon
(Post 1213406)
I wholeheartedly disagree with that puffery.
Just because DALPA says it's so...doesn't make it so. Trying to say that comes out as a zero cost contract because the company is saving the overhaul costs on 50 seaters as the DTW rep is stating is a joke. Its a cost to do business that provides a financial return to the company to cover the cost. It will actually cost the company more to refleet the airline. In fact if you apply the DTW reps logic then if they save 2 billion in overhaul costs but the refleet costs 3 billion then we are getting over 1.4 billion a year in the last year. Thats a joke for many reasons. The value of the contract is how much extra money each year will pilot costs be at Delta airlines. End game in the last year that number is in excess of 400 million counting both the pluses and minuses in this contract. If you vote no vote no on that number. I wanted about 500 million a year so it falls short for me. The extra 100 million a year would have brought us up to SW and allowed another 1 percent in the DC. That would get my yes vote. |
Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
(Post 1213343)
You are way off. Management is reducing outsourcing overall, and tightening their own international scope with this TA. They may have wanted more 76 seaters, but with it they have to yield a ratio that downsizes DCI. The 88 717s will swoop in and take back regional flights that you are currently doing between larger city pairs. The profit sharing decrease might take place in 2014, not next year, and by 2015 we would be negotiating again. If the analysts are right and DL is wildly profitable, the profit sharing cutback may not happen at all, actually increasing to 20% from 15%. Will there be 300 furloughs? No one ever said that, but you. The 717s, that have to come or no additional CR9s, could add 1000 jobs, and the VP of flt Ops said hiring this Fall (you don't trust him....). DL would be way ahead if AA, US, and UA, who really haven't helped anyone in pattern bargaining. And 20% raise in 2 1/2 years is great. How has your own pay progressed? It's a great deal with better scope overall, less outsourcing, 717s, good pay. You're wrong.
This does not work this way. You'd think so, wouldn't ya. But no. The first 2.5B, we will get the reduced 10%. Only on the profits above 2.5B will we get 20% on. The fine print is gonna kill us on this thing. We will never learn. |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 1213325)
With the violent swings this industry has, I'm suprised people are so hung up on this. We are taking money that isn't guaranteed, and turning it into money that is guaranteed in our pockets. Yes, I know Delta is "forecast" to make billions. But I trust accountants about as far as I can throw a Peterbuilt. Payrates are more guaranteed then profit sharing.
That would be fine if we were talking about stellar pay rates. We're not. |
Originally Posted by UGBSM
(Post 1213413)
You don't "know" what RA will do. I don't know what makes you think you know more than the negotiators know. Why would you take your chances? Why act on what you don't know? Why are pilots so willing to be such gamblers when it comes to their career? Its so unnecessary. It not up to you to guess at what RA will do. Act on what we do know. We have a deal in front of us. Our negotiators and MEC are in the best position to know the best course of action. This is it. Vote YES or NO based on whether you believe them or not.
Works both ways. You do not know either what will happen if we turn this down. Plenty of assumptions that a rejection will automatically lead to a long 3 plus year battle. Only RA knows what he will do. Do you honestly think he would show negotiatiors what his plan b is? They are only guessing that it will be worst case. |
Originally Posted by finis72
(Post 1213374)
About 2% of the pay raises, tell the whole story 80.
Yes, let's tell the whole truth. While DAL might not make $2 Billion next year they will make a BILLION Plus each year for the next few years (yes, that could turn around tomorrow - that's part of the judgement everyone needs to make). So, let's talk about the pay raises as 4/6.5/1/1 (remember, we gave up profit sharing to fund pay raises). |
Originally Posted by finis72
(Post 1213374)
About 2% of the pay raises, tell the whole story 80.
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