Where we stand in the industry
06-18-2012 | 12:21 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 255
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From: New Hire
I am an avid ALPA supporter. I contribute to the PAC. And respectfully, I think this TA is very dangerous for most of our pilots. I know you will not be effected by outsourcing, so I respect your view. I just can not support a continual erosion of our mainline flying to DCI. Pay, now, I can live with. Outsourcing, no way.
With this TA, Alpa failed to represent us. I understand why; DCI is ALPA. Rightfully so, ALPA can not turn its back on fellow ALPA pilots. There is no easy way about this. I need my "dues" dollars to work only for my Delta Pilots, no one else. But can u see the conflict of interest?
I see ALPA discrediting DPA as much as DPA discrediting ALPA. I also see the NN and roadshow suger coat some very ambiguous clauses in the TA. (Scope,Pay,SICK). Please FINIS, read this TA knowing a very shrewd/pro-company attorney wrote it. Regardless, ALPA will get paid.
TEN
With this TA, Alpa failed to represent us. I understand why; DCI is ALPA. Rightfully so, ALPA can not turn its back on fellow ALPA pilots. There is no easy way about this. I need my "dues" dollars to work only for my Delta Pilots, no one else. But can u see the conflict of interest?
I see ALPA discrediting DPA as much as DPA discrediting ALPA. I also see the NN and roadshow suger coat some very ambiguous clauses in the TA. (Scope,Pay,SICK). Please FINIS, read this TA knowing a very shrewd/pro-company attorney wrote it. Regardless, ALPA will get paid.
TEN
06-18-2012 | 12:23 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
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You're correct that there are a lot of stipulations, but neither the 1113C or CLA deals will "help" our bargaining position. The CLA requires $240 million in annual concessions net of their "pay raise". The 1113C is far worse. Both open up their scope substantially.
06-18-2012 | 12:44 PM
#43
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
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From: Poodle Whisperer
The 1113C scope is posted on the AMR restructuring site under pilots. The US Airways agreements are posted on the member's only side of the APA website. I've tried to find the CLA on the AMR docket but it appears to be sealed. If you've got a friend working for AMR they can download them for you, but as they're not a public document (yet) I probably shouldn't post them.
You're correct that there are a lot of stipulations, but neither the 1113C or CLA deals will "help" our bargaining position. The CLA requires $240 million in annual concessions net of their "pay raise". The 1113C is far worse. Both open up their scope substantially.
You're correct that there are a lot of stipulations, but neither the 1113C or CLA deals will "help" our bargaining position. The CLA requires $240 million in annual concessions net of their "pay raise". The 1113C is far worse. Both open up their scope substantially.
Haven't exactly had a whole lot of time to spend on this stuff lately anyways seeing as I've flown every day on call except 1 this month.
While I know their position won't help us regardless, DALPA advertises it in the documents provided as though they are unrestricted. Same with UAL 70 seaters, which restricted by ratio. US is well below their cap for jumbos as well for the similar reasons, but it too was left out of the DALPA documents.
Just trying to find the whole picture.
06-18-2012 | 01:43 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,039
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From: 7ERB
This logic doesn't make sense. The best thing for ALPA pilots, regional or mainline, is to STOP OUTSOURCING. I don't understand why some folks think the outsourcing will benefit DCI pilots. A small portion may get off reserve sooner or upgrade faster, but they DO NOT want to spend their lives at DCI; to a major as fast as possible! I can't see the conflict of interest. Ask any DCI pilot if they want DAL pilots to give up on scope...seriously ask! Stop assuming that they are campaigning for larger aircraft because it just ain't so.
TEN
06-19-2012 | 04:23 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 255
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From: New Hire
Ask any RJ pilot what their next move is career wise and they aren't going to say "well I hope to stay with Pinnacle for the next 15 years, things are great here". They are going to say "I want MAINLINE". And if you think that ALPA has somehow outsourced on behalf of RJ pilots, frankly you are a nincompoop.
06-19-2012 | 05:07 AM
#46
Banned
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: DAL
A general observation: The no voters are divided into 2 groups, one being the pilots who feel this TA s not good enough and we can do better, the other group are agenda voters who just post rumors, half truths and downright lies and when called on it they either switch subjects or revert to anti ALPA slogans. Anybody with a little knowledge and half a brain can figure who's who. DPA is doing everything possible to discredit this TA and ALPA because it furthers their cause, they don't give a rats a$$ about DL pilots, they just want power.
A general observation: The yes voters are divided into 2 groups, one being the pilots who feel this TA is good enough and we can't do better despite our leverage. The other group are agenda voters who just post rumors, half truths, and downright lies and when called on it, they either switch subjects or revert to pro-ALPA slogans. Anybody with a little knowledge and half a brain can figure who's who. ALPA is doing everything possible to sell this TA because it furthers their cause, they don't give a rat's a$$ about DL pilots, they just want power and FPL.
06-19-2012 | 05:19 AM
#47
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
That's a pretty dumbed-down & overly simplistic generalization you make. But if that's what you're after, I've got another one for you:
A general observation: The yes voters are divided into 2 groups, one being the pilots who feel this TA is good enough and we can't do better despite our leverage. The other group are agenda voters who just post rumors, half truths, and downright lies and when called on it, they either switch subjects or revert to pro-ALPA slogans. Anybody with a little knowledge and half a brain can figure who's who. ALPA is doing everything possible to sell this TA because it furthers their cause, they don't give a rat's a$$ about DL pilots, they just want power and FPL.
A general observation: The yes voters are divided into 2 groups, one being the pilots who feel this TA is good enough and we can't do better despite our leverage. The other group are agenda voters who just post rumors, half truths, and downright lies and when called on it, they either switch subjects or revert to pro-ALPA slogans. Anybody with a little knowledge and half a brain can figure who's who. ALPA is doing everything possible to sell this TA because it furthers their cause, they don't give a rat's a$$ about DL pilots, they just want power and FPL.
Carl
06-19-2012 | 05:33 AM
#48
Banned
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
Likes: 0
A general observation: The no voters are divided into 2 groups, one being the pilots who feel this TA s not good enough and we can do better, the other group are agenda voters who just post rumors, half truths and downright lies and when called on it they either switch subjects or revert to anti ALPA slogans. Anybody with a little knowledge and half a brain can figure who's who. DPA is doing everything possible to discredit this TA and ALPA because it furthers their cause, they don't give a rats a$$ about DL pilots, they just want power.
06-19-2012 | 05:39 AM
#49
Banned
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
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Alpha, you should have posted the rates for where we stand today using our projected 2025 rates (estimated 3% per year). The time value of money results in phenomenal rates that blow away the rest of our peers' current rates.
06-19-2012 | 10:00 AM
#50
Banned
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: DAL
Who cares? What's the value of being unified with ALPA in charge? ALPA stands for top-down cronyism, total disregard for the line pilot (so much for hearing us "loud and clear" in the survey). Complete insularity and self-preservation, an utter disregard for transparent leadership. An irreconcilable conflict of interest. I could go on and on.
Once upon a time, "Unity" was a form of leverage. Back when leverage mattered.
Since our "union" wouldn't know leverage if it shat in their laps, I'd say all this nonsense about "unity" is a waste of time.
The company doesn't need to hire any high-price union busters. ALPA is busting itself.
Once upon a time, "Unity" was a form of leverage. Back when leverage mattered.
Since our "union" wouldn't know leverage if it shat in their laps, I'd say all this nonsense about "unity" is a waste of time.
The company doesn't need to hire any high-price union busters. ALPA is busting itself.
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